Haken is two years old, going on three... (RP, WoW)

[thistlechaser]

Some thoughts on Haken, feel free to skip if you're not interested.



I've been thinking about Haken a lot lately. Part of it is that I worry he's annoying. We've joked that he's like a two-year old, but that's not really a joke. For a long time, I took it to be a bad thing, but it's really not. A two-year old is actually an improvement over being one of the Lich King's knights, assuming your final goal is to have him being as normal as possible and able to walk around in public on his own.

Not really knowing much about kids, I googled "what is a three year old like" and found an interesting list:

# listens attentively to short stories and books
# likes familiar stories told without any changes in words
# enjoys listening to stories and repeating simple rhymes
# able to tell simple stories from pictures or books
# enjoys singing and can carry a simple tune

Doesn't that sound like him? :D

So much of the list for two-year olds fits as well:

# plays alongside others more than with them
# acts shy around strangers (Shy? Homicide? What's the difference!)
# likes to imitate parents
# easily frustrated
# affectionate - hugs and kisses (To Morn, anyway!)
# very possessive - offers toys to other children but then wants them back
# capable of frequent tantrums, which are often a result of his inability to express himself even though he has ideas
# can show aggressive behavior and the intent to hurt others
# can be extremely demanding and persistent
# possessive about caregiver's attention; show feelings of jealousy

A lot more of the two-year old list applies than the three-year old, but still! He's making progress!

(Edit: Grr, can't use double quotes in cut text. Pretend the singles are doubles!)

Comments

[kaelash.livejournal.com]

The only really annoying part about Haken is... Pretty much all the things listed! ;D But I can't stand kids in that age range, so at least you're being accurate?

I think the biggest source of possible annoyance that I see when Haken is being Haken in public is that in some ways he still acts like an adult. Certainly looks like one. So when he pulls the 2-3 year old attitude then... Well. People think of it as an adult that's purposefully being abrasive.

Let's face it. 2-3 year olds are assholes. And Haken almost never shows ANY of the adorable points in public. People aren't going to like that. And tend to blur IC/OOC.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

That's the thing. I don't mind being ICly annoying. (Well, I'd rather be ICly nice and friendly and loved, but there's Keen for that!) I don't want to be OOCly annoying. I don't want folks to think I'm playing him as some way of being the center of all attention, getting more attention than my fair share...

I see when Haken is being Haken in public is that in some ways he still acts like an adult. Certainly looks like one.

And he is sort of one. Or has characteristics of one? I mean, he doesn't have to wear a diaper (ha!) and he can feed himself... The whole 'paying for food to feed himself with' is in his head now, too. I didn't mean he's 100% a two-year old and nothing else... blah, this is more complicated than it should be!

And Haken almost never shows ANY of the adorable points in public.

Yeah, though I'm told he does show them in private! I have a hard time seeing them (probably too close to him), but others go 'awwww' over him on a semi-regular basis.

[kaelash.livejournal.com]

I do not take the 'awwwww' factor into account on purpose. Cause Kae is an ass and a predator and people go AWWWH! over him all the time and I just -boggle-.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

"Awwwh, poor rapist!"

I remember that one well! :P

[kaelash.livejournal.com]

To be fair, in context Kae -was- devastated 'cause that was a game of consent gone bad, but still. After the 'this is how Kae kills rare spawns' blog, people should know he's more than capable of it, accident or not that time.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I think I haven't seen that blog post...

And yeah, he should be devastated. As the aggressor, it was his responsibility to make sure he had consent each and every time, no matter how many "no no no!" games had been played previously with this person. :/ If this had happened in RL, Kae'd end up in prison over this... where he'd probably run the cellblock and have a great time. :P

We used to talk about making a prison-based MU*. I still think that's a workable idea!

[kaelash.livejournal.com]

There's the problem, Kae isn't responsible and is violent by nature. Add to it someone telling him to be rough and hurt them and it's a VERY dangerous situation that he wasn't even aware of until many months later.

Kae has learned a little and is gun-shy about being too rough now, but yeah. He would have gone to prison IRL and he would have deserved it. As for the blog post, NSFW and over here: http://wyrmrestaccord.net/content/how-kae-kills-rare-spawns-nsfw-language-and-disturbing-stuff-seriously-blood-and-guts-and-ye

There's like 1000 comments discussing how disturbing it is that people go 'aww, poor Kae', too. And amazingly the discussion remained civil until the trolls showed up with UMAD images and the like.

[kaelash.livejournal.com]

.... Wow disjointed thought process. I blame work.

The last line is about the blogpost after that one that tells about Kae D:-ing after finding out he raped someone. Not the rare-spawn-killing post. Derp.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

No worries, I feel the need to edit the hell out of the comment I just posted, too. The daily raping they were doing was "real" (ICly real) rape, not sexual games. And the reason it sometimes pushes my buttons is like in that situation with the guild, when there are no consequences for the actions. They rape each other, then an hour later and they're sharing cookies! All of them. Every time. NO NO NO.

...so maybe that's more a bad RP button than a rape one.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Huh, I must have missed it because it was NWS and I was checking at work. Too often I mean to go back and read NWS stuff from home, then forget.

And yeah, I remember that 1000 comment rape discussion. It was my last straw on leaving WRA. People openly blaming the woman for rape and crap like that.

Kae has learned a little and is gun-shy about being too rough now, but yeah. He would have gone to prison IRL and he would have deserved it.

Sometimes it's really hard to separate IC and RL (edit: for me), at least on some subject matters. Mini-Keen was in a guild for a couple weeks, and I spent the entire time so disturbed RL. They raped each other ICly every day, and between the rapes they cuddled and loved each other. When I mentioned mini-Keen getting his ears bitten off, raped, and his shoulder dislocated, the one and only reaction to that was "hawt". I'm surprised I made it two weeks before quitting (and in the end, it was over them using 'gay' to mean 'bad', but that was really just the final straw). I know rape can be fine and okay in RP (hell, I have first-hand knowledge of that!), but sometimes it really pushes my buttons RL. (I don't even know when I got those buttons! They're rather new.)

[ani-mama.livejournal.com]

Take away one year from the list and that sounds more like it. Three year old sounds more like two, two year old sounds more like one. Sometimes I think these generalized lists only mention the lowest markers, so the parents would not freak out if their kids are not as far along.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oh oops! Oh well, Haken fully qualifies as one of the slower kids (at least when it comes to social stuff), so low markers probably work for him!

It's good to hear from someone who knows this stuff first-hand. :D

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

If I have learned anything over the past couple years it's that parents don't need any reason to freak out over nothing that has no meaning or matter anyways. Parents just freak out now adays, it's hard coded or something.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I can kind of understand that. Whenever my cat even just coughs, I want to snatch her up and run her over to the emergency vet. I love her so much, and I feel so helpless about so much health-wise around her... Having someone who knows these things look at her and tell me she's okay means a lot. At least until she coughs again!

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

Ya but I can kind of understand that with a cat since, I too act that way probably because I know exactly nothing about kitty health and such. But like, as a human, I know if my kid has a cough, it's like a 95% chance that it's just a cold. If it's a nasty cold, goto the store and get some children's cough medicine and such.

But like, parents flip out about EVERYTHING now, it's just silly. I mean, when I was a kid (all 10 years ago...) my parents knew what I was up to, and they would warn me, "Hey, be careful climbing that tree!" and then I eventually fell out of that tree, and it hurt. Since then, I've known the double edged sword that is climbing things.

But now adays it's like "No you can't climb that!", "This park is too dangerous cause the stuff is over 4 feet high!", "Swings are a death trap!" Ok...that last one is probably true, but swinging as high as you can and then jumping out of the seat at the right time to get the best distance in your temporary flight is an important life lesson.

When I was in grade school (grades 1-4 specifically) we had this thing that was basically like a web pyramid thing that was like 3 stories high. You would climb all the way up to the top, and then instantly regret the decision, and there was no help up there, you were coming down via fall to earth or sucking it up and climbing down! I think the highest I ever fell out of it was from about 1/2 way up, I knew some people who fell from higher. We had it for 4 years until someone fell from the top and broke their arm, and dislocated their knee.

I'm going to stop now, I think I've made my point. Gotta avoid rambling into eternity about this stuff...

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, true... And I have a falling story, too! When I was a kid, a group of us neighborhood kids were jumping off the roof of a pickup truck's cab. Why? No idea! When it came my turn, I landed flat on my back. I was told they heard my screaming way down the other end of the block! Heh! (I didn't break anything, luckily.)

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

When I was a kid, a group of us neighborhood kids were jumping off the roof of a pickup truck's cab. Why? No idea!

Because that's what kids do! That's how we learn! If they don't learn about this kind of stuff you end up with the people who are surrounding me right now in my class who are going:

"This is gay that the internet is down!"
"This is the worst internet I've ever been on!"
"Fuck this school man!"

These fools don't know bad internet cause their mommy's bought the best internet they could so little jimmy wouldn't have to suffer without something he wanted!

Aggravation is max...

[itsbacon.livejournal.com]

# very possessive - offers toys to other children but then wants them back

This one made me giggle!

I don't find Haken's two-year-old-ness to be annoying, but then I may be biased -- and I see his behavior in the context of the eight-something-month period I've known him, whereas people in walk-up RP might not! I really find it quite endearing and fascinating, seeing how Haken's adult(-like) death knight traits mesh or conflict with his developing social traits.

THIS COMMENT IS VERY GARBLED, typed up after a night of very bad sleep, just before I rush out the door to the doctor! But ♥ Haken.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

and I see his behavior in the context of the eight-something-month period I've known him, whereas people in walk-up RP might not!

I think this is a rare case where it's good that I don't RP him much outside of our circle of people who know him. Keen? Oh, he's fine for mixed company, but Haken can stay around the folks he knows.

See you tonight! <3

[socksofjello.livejournal.com]

I was going to say 'from what I've read, Haken reminds me a lot of a kid from an abusive household' before I remembered that's essentially his character concept (once you stretch the analogy).

Having marathonned Haken's journal one night, I can definitely see where Morn and friends have helped him to this point, even if he's still a toddler socially and emotionally. Obviously a lot of the stuff he does is for Morn's approval, but I'd say there's a pretty big gap between slaughtering an entire family for the joy of it and giving an owl to a local butcher to help with pests.

Even if I'm interpreting that as him wanting to keep it close by so he can continue visiting it. :|


(How weird is it to have someone you've never played with commenting with their analysis of your character?)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Heh! That's a good point too, about the abusive household. His parent encouraged him to fight and be bad! And most of his siblings were no better! :P

Even if I'm interpreting that as him wanting to keep it close by so he can continue visiting it. :|

Yes. It is a Good Animal and it is Interesting. By giving it to the butcher (which was Morn's idea), he can still visit it and see it!

(How weird is it to have someone you've never played with commenting with their analysis of your character?)

Ha! Not at all! I'm glad you did, I enjoyed reading it. :D