Food foo

[thistlechaser]

Though it's about a half-hour out of the way, I went to Boston Market for dinner (which made me wonder where snowcalico is tonight). Oh boy, what good chicken! Worth the long post-work drive down sucky-as-hell-at-rushhour ECR.

While chicken nearly always satisfies my meat cravings, I'm starting to feel guilty about it. I blame quasilemur and that LJ conversation we had a while back (something about killing bugs and meat and all that). I don't even remember the details of it, but I'm really starting to feel the need to strike chicken from my menu, too. I mean, you can see the legs and the wings... it's too easy to imagine the thing still having feathers and a head and eyes and all those alive-things.

So I basically don't eat beef, eat pork really rarely, and now I'm going to drop chicken? If only I ate vegetables, I could be a vegetation. Not eating meat and not eating veggies is tough though. What am I down to, popcorn, pasta, and the occasional Japanese sweet? Well, I eat lots of American sweets too, but I'd rather cut those out of my diet, not make them a greater part...

Like most of my food likes/dislikes, I don't like tofu because I've never tried it. Fish I'm not willing to try, but tofu I am. That seems odd. (And yes, I don't like fish because I've never tried it (other than shrimp once), but while I know it's good for me, I'm still not willing to try it. Other things I'm open to being open to, but not fish. Yuck, blech, twitch.)

This is going to take more thought...

Comments

[alchemia.livejournal.com]

"... I'm starting to feel guilty about it... I'm really starting to feel the need to strike chicken from my menu, too. I mean, you can see the legs and the wings... "

What is the guilt about? Is it that it was once alive? objection to the killing methods? Objection to how their lives are before they are killed? What do you think of consuming eggs, dairy, honey? Is there a difference between raising an animal verses hunting it in the wild, etc.? Does the kind of animal matter to you? Is it how different species need to be cared for when alive? Is it the level of consciousness you believe they have? How do you feel about: Fish. Ostrich. Buffalo. Rabbit. Cuy (guinea pig). Lamb. Venison. Alligator. Grubs and insects? and so on. (I know you said you'd not eat fish, but thinking how you feel about it as a food might be helpful in knowing what your objection is to exactly, if you aren't positive about that yet).

"... popcorn, pasta, and the occasional Japanese sweet? Well, I eat lots of American sweets too, but I'd rather cut those out of my diet, not make them a greater part..."

sugar is cheap, addictive, nothing but empty calories (no nutritional value) and puts a huge stress of the body (No wonder we are the most overweight, physically unhealthy country!) .

I avoid even non-sweets with sugar in them- America over-uses it. Its in bread, cereals, snacks, hotdogs, peanut butter, juices, ketchup etc etc. I do occasionally give in to the occasional treat, but then its well deserved and you aren’t taxing your system with it constantly- its just that, a treat! I stick with foods sweetened with fruit juice, honey, bee pollen, etc I choose.

I assume this applies to your veggies too: ..."Like most of my food likes/dislikes, I don't like tofu because I've never tried it..... Why don't you try them? Growing up was the veggies on the table bland and unappetizing? Do you have no idea what veggies are out there or how to cook them if you wanted to even try them...?

Star with recommendations from other people- whether it is pre-made foods to buy, or meals to cook at home. You seem to really like trying all those Japanese candies- so why not set a goal for yourself to try one new healthy food a week? If you don't like it, you don't have to eat it ever again. Try something else next time =)

Try new foods in styles you like. Like Italian foods- baked pasta, lasagna, chicken parmesan, etc.? Try eggplant parmesan, veggie lasagna, pasta primavera... Veggies on pizza? In omlettes? etc.

You can also always disguise your veggies and fruits if you don't like to eat them whole. I know someone who loves their pasta sauce, but can't stand chunks of veggie in it- but they just put veggies in and put it in the blender. There’s health drinks (I like Odwalla) or you can make you’re own fruit smoothies in the blender- banana, milk, and strawberry or other fruit of choice, blend and drink. Freeze the berries first so it's cold- yum!

And If you don't eat balanced, there are always vitamins/supplements to take.

BTW: I started vegetarian, then went vegan, now I not vegan except when out to eat any place “commercial” as what I realized bothered me was how the animals were raised- what their lives were like- and how quick/painless the death was. I have spoiled pet chickens for fresh eggs, and occasionally eat meat when it’s locally raised, organically, free range and slaughtered appropriately according to my beliefs. I also try to focus on mostly organic and whole/raw foods, but not exclusively, some foods are better cooked =)

[chikkiboo.livejournal.com]

Boy is super-picky and somehow he manages to survive on a diet consisting of the following, and nothing else:

- Soda
- Boneless fried chicken, but only from certain restaurants and stores
- Steak, once in a while, if either cooked until tough like leather or breaded and fried because he is a crazy Southerner
- Popcorn
- Chocolate chip cookies
- Milkshakes
- Bacon, if I've cooked it and he happens to walk in while I'm having breakfast
- French fries, but only from Burger King and only if there's nothing on them but salt

None of that stuff is actually nutritious except possibly the steak, and most of it is fatty death, yet he's skinnier than me. He refuses to try anything else - Chinese food is a no, pizza is a no, ham is a no, sandwiches are a no, chicken from restaurants he hasn't been to before is a no, cereal is a no, eggs are a no, cornbread's a no, potatoes are a no, vegetables of any kind are a no...

If he manages to survive, you probably can too... although maybe not if you stop eating the chicken.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's not far from my diet... I just wish I had the skinny part to go with it! I think I'm going to try beans (some sort of beans...) and see if I like those, that would be some protein there.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Wow, such good questions and information! Hopefully I won't miss anything in my reply:

What is the guilt about? ...

One would think that if I got this far, I'd have an answer to this question. I'm not totally sure. I think a big part of it is that I'm taking a life when I don't need to (humans can survive fine without eating meat).

Strangely, the killing methods don't bother me -- maybe I trust too much that they're done as "best" (humanely) as they can be? Maybe I just haven't done enough research? How the animals were treated before slaughter bothers me more, but I sort of understand why it's done and why it won't stop or be changed (market driven/most Americans don't care so it won't change).

Is it the level of consciousness I believe they have? Mmm, maybe, but only in a gross sort of way. I'd call fish and land-based animals different consciousnesses, but I wouldn't try to differentiate between cows and chickens. I probably shouldn't even make that distinction, since I believe (and new studies have been backing up) that fish feel and react to pain...

Things like eggs and honey don't bother me. The honey because I've not ever put "bugs" into this evaluation, and eggs because... well, I guess that that's too much of a step for now. If I was successful with the whole meat thing, then eggs may or may not be the next step.

sugar is cheap, addictive, nothing but empty calories (no nutritional value) and puts a huge stress of the body...

Not a bit of disagreement there. Alas, agreement doesn't make it much easier to cut them out of my life.

I stick with foods sweetened with fruit juice, honey, bee pollen, etc I choose.

Do you do most of your shopping at health food stores? Where do you find things like this? (I'm suspecting most supermarkets don't carry foods sweetened with those things?)

Why don't you try them? Growing up was the veggies on the table bland and unappetizing? Do you have no idea what veggies are out there or how to cook them if you wanted to even try them...?

This is a harder one to answer. I've never eaten them, even as a kid. I used to say it was because my parents let me out-stubborn them at the dinnertable (they'd say 'eat your carrots or you can't leave the table' so I'd sit there for hours on end, until they finally just let me go because it was bedtime or whatever). And so why don't I do it now as an adult? I seem to still have that kid mindset: Vegetables are *gross*! Yuck! But in truth? I have no clue how 95% of them taste. Corn is the only thing I eat on any sort of regular basis (and even that is under once a month)...

so why not set a goal for yourself to try one new healthy food a week?

I think that's a really great idea, and one I'm going to start with this week!

Try new foods in styles you like. Like Italian foods- baked pasta, lasagna, chicken parmesan, etc.? Try eggplant parmesan, veggie lasagna, pasta primavera... Veggies on pizza? In omlettes? etc.

More good ideas, and while it feels odd, I'm actually looking forward to trying this out!

And If you don't eat balanced, there are always vitamins/supplements to take.

That's the one thing I'm pretty good at. I know it won't make up for not eating veggies, but at least taking a multi-vitamin is something.

In typing this up, I've gotten more of a feeling for my reasons for doing this (thanks!). I think it comes down to that I want to do as little harm and bring as little pain to the world as possible. I don't believe "animals are people too!", but I do believe that they feel pain and have certain requirements for a healthy and happy life (space, feed, social interaction, etc). Maybe my change will have next to no impact on this, but it will likely make me healthier and will reduce my guilt at what we (humans in general) do to animals.

Man, I sound just like the people I used to laugh at when I was in college. Guess it just took me longer start growing up...

[countrymouse.livejournal.com]

I'm not a vegetarian, but there are a lot of foods I can't eat, mostly because of allergies to additives and such.

For quite a while I was having problems, so veggies were out of my diet. Lately, though, I started realizing I should try to add some back in.

I fixed myself some plain carrots. Wash/scrape carrots, cut up into strips, put into a covered saucepan with a small amount of water (DO NOT ADD SALT--takes away the sweetness), bring to boil, then turn down to simmer 10 minutes or so (according to how soft you like your veggies--I am not a fan of crunchy veggies, so I use all the liquid from them so that I still get the water-soluble vitamins. For further help on cooking veggies, see The New Laurel's Kitchen). I am still having to do a soft-food thing, so my next step was whip out the hand-blender and puree! Then cool and freeze some portions, take the rest and slather with corn oil margarine and eat. THIS is why people say "grace"/offer up words of praise to the being(s) who make food possible! I could not believe I was rhapsodizing over carrots. They tasted SO GOOD!

Also I have added back in: chopped frozen broccoli (yum!) and frozen lima beans (I didn't like them as a child; but somehow I have taken to them as a grown-up). Since I am trying to get enough calories, I put margarine on all my veggies. :-P But if you can find almond oil, it tastes really superb on lima beans! Oh yeah, and there is the good old reliable baked (or if done in the microwave, "steamed" (technically speaking)) potato. Use Idaho bakers for this. Make sure there is NO green beneath the skin, no gashes, no little roots coming out, no softness when you squeeze it. Of course you guessed it: lots of margarine on that too. :-P But any of these veggies can be very low in calories if you leave off the fat. Even baked potatoes. :-)

And, something I *was* doing regularly a year or so ago and that I need to get back into the habit of doing: drink 1 can of Ensure Plus or Boost Plus a day. That way I get the extra calories PLUS vitamins and minerals.

If you ever want to give fish a try (and I don't like fish much, myself), sole and flounder are extremely mild in flavour. Tuna makes good salad. :-) And salmon is very nice. :-)

[alchemia.livejournal.com]

Were you eating the veggies frozen or bought them frozen and cooked them? Just curious, I actually like green peas eaten frozen as a snack!


I think potato is just more carbo rather then veggie- but its still a good food. Have you tried topping baked potato? My favourite on potato is brocolli, cheddar cheese with either fake veggie baco-bits or freerange bacon crumbles.

I like butter over margarine, and I use it ALOT. But I need the calories also =)

I have to admit also, I do not care for much sea food. The ONLY fish I like is salmon! any other kind of fish- GAG!!!! and the only shell fish I like are crab legs (with lots of butter and lemon of course!), oysters (raw with lots of tobasco) and crawfish (only in cajun cooking).

[alchemia.livejournal.com]

Wow, such good questions and information!

Thank you. I hope they are helpful to you. It took me YEARS to figure out were I stood on this issue, so don’t be frustrated if you aren’t decided in a week or month or whatever.

maybe I trust too much that they're done as "best" (humanely) as they can be?

They’re as economical and easy for the humans as possible. Chickens are often hung upside down in what’s called a “killing cone” to keep them still, taken down a conveyor belt to, sometimes electrocuted by being dragged thru water firs, before their throats are slit? Chickens DON’T like being upside down and they are seeing other chickens getting slaughtered which must be very scary. Animals IMHO should be kept in a natural position so as not to be alerted to any danger, and kept from seeing/hearing others being slaughtered before they are. I’d rather see a chicken be coaxed down and decapitated or shot in the head – but this is not practical for the commercial industry. However, people with small farms who raise their own chickens still do it this way.

How the animals were treated before slaughter bothers me more, but I sort of understand why it's done and why it won't stop or be changed (market driven/most Americans don't care so it won't change).

But many Americans DO care. 10 years ago, you couldn’t find so much as soy milk or an organic egg in the big chain grocery stores here. Now they have several aisles devoted to organic foods and vegetarian foods! They wouldn’t do this if there was no market, and the market is growing- some people because of allergies; some because they are opposed to use of animals, some because they feel this is just healthier.

If you live close enough to a rural area also, you may be able to get things direct from local farms. Even in suburban areas and cities- there are farmers markets, and people who do things as a hobby only- people who breed rabbits for show/pets sometimes also sell rabbit meat (don’t go asking anyone with a pet rabbit though, there’s email lists and clubs that have directories and will direct you to those who won’t be offended.)

”Do you do most of your shopping at health food stores? Where do you find things like this? (I'm suspecting most supermarkets don't carry foods sweetened with those things?)

10 years ago I had to, and even the choices there were limited! Since then though our chain stores have started carrying “health foods”. I still go to health stores for some thigns (better prices on some items, more selection of herbal teas etc.) but now anyone who goes to just Jewel (aka: albertson’s I think?) or Dominick’s (at least in my area) can find soy-cheese, soy milk, rice milk, organic free range eggs and cheese, several brands of vegitarian burgers, “hotdogs”, “chik”-nuggets, a halfway decent selection of organic cereals and canned veggies, local grown organic veggies, etc.. Also keep in mind, there ARE major commercial brands that offer some special items to reach people with health or medical concerns- Polanar makes an no-refined sugar jam for example.

so why not set a goal for yourself to try one new healthy food a week?

I think that's a really great idea, and one I'm going to start with this week!

Try new foods in styles you like. Like Italian foods- baked pasta, lasagna, chicken parmesan, etc.? Try eggplant parmesan, veggie lasagna, pasta primavera... Veggies on pizza? In omlettes? etc.

More good ideas, and while it feels odd, I'm actually looking forward to trying this out!

I’m glad you liked them! If you need any suggestions, give me more idea of your food tastes (ethnic flavor, textures, etc.) and what you might like to try (microwavable, recipe from scratch, etc.) and I’ll see what I can come up with. I’m sure many others will also have ideas to share for you!

[laurelwood.livejournal.com]

I used to manage the "info dept." of a small health food store chain, and I've done lots of out of the norm food taste-testing and recipe-hunting/trying for customers and friends who have made forays into vegetarianism (or gluten-freeness, or veganism, or you name it). So if you ever find yourself with "natural foods" type questions, there's someone in LJland who's homesick for the biz and who'd be happy to help!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Thank for the offer! I'm sure as time goes on I'll have questions to bug you with. :)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oooh, thanks for all the advice! Especially on the veggie cooking!

And on a totally unrelated note, recall my AC stunt where I lost everything I was carrying? When I posted, I forgot that that included the morning aerobics card! *EEK!* Luckily, after scolding me for losing it, he just gave me a new one with credit for all my visits thus far (12!). Whew!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I guess I've never looked for the alternate choices in the supermarket, so I never noticed them. Next time I go, I'll keep my eyes open.


If you need any suggestions, give me more idea of your food tastes (ethnic flavor, textures, etc.) and what you might like to try (microwavable, recipe from scratch, etc.) and I’ll see what I can come up with.

Thanks for the offer! I might just take you up on that in the future!

[tersa.livejournal.com]

Potatoes (and corn) are more carbo than vegetable.

(I have more thoughts on this topic, but I thought I'd start out small).

[tersa.livejournal.com]

Coming late to the discussion, but everything I read is percolating around...

If you're serious about wanting to go vegetarian, please, please, *please* make sure you eat a balanced diet. From your list, it would look extremely protein and vitamin/mineral deficient. I know a vegetarian whose idea of a great meal is half a bagel with cream cheese, or a half a box of instant couscous. This is an extremely unhealthful diet.

Check out the Morning Star line of vegetarian meat substitutes. Their veggie burger is very good, and as a couple of my friends noted this weekend, fit perfectly on an English muffin. :) They also have fake chicken nuggets, which you would probably like. Beans are also a good source of protein, and you can buy a lot of beans canned; stock up, and keep 'em on hand. Hummus (made with garbanzo beans) is easy to make if you have a food processor, and makes a good dip. Or, like I did with my veggie soup, throw a can of beans into it. You hardly notice. Make black or refried bean & cheese burritos. Etc.

Be careful with the tofu, though, as I suspect you might have consistency issues. Most tofu is packed in water, and unless you want it to be soft, you have to take the time to drain it, something I've had problems doing. I would recommend trying the tofu I use almost exclusively now, called Nigiri, in the 'Firm' consistency, which is in the organic food section of Safeway (I've never seen it at any of the other local stores). It has a nice, solid consistency which holds its shape when cooked. That brand line also offers several other kinds of tofu, such as baked, fried, BBQ'ed, etc., which I haven't tried yet.

A very yummy preparation? Cube up a small block of Nigiri tofu, heat up some oil (peanut or canola is best) on high heat in a deep skillet or wok, and stir fry until brown. You can use this as a basis for other meals. I've been buying some packaged Asian noodle meals and throwing the tofu in.

You're talking about wanting to try to make nummy vegetables makes me want to cook for you. :) I grew up eating mostly canned vegetables, and not much of them. I only started really expanding my vegetable and fruit menu when I left home. Buy fresh, and invest in a steamer basket. And work on cooking without overcooking. And don't forget that fruit is good for you, too!

That all said, you made a comment that humans can survive without eating meat. Yes, that's true. However, the human body was *designed* to be omnivorous. If you have ethical issues about the treatment of many animals in food-raising environments, I would encourage you to go the route of the one poster who does the organic, free-range meat. You live in natural food mecca out here, and there's a Whole Foods down on Steven's Creek which would be an ideal place to shop for stuff like that.

Also, lastly, humans can only forgo meat if their multi-vitamin contains B-12, an essential vitamin which *only* exists naturally in meat. And as it's a B-vitamin, it's water-soluble, meaning it should be taken daily for good health.

And please, don't hesitate to talk to me. I think I have a unique set of information sets having been an animal science major *and* studying animal nutrition (which, oddly enough, translates well into human nutrition :)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

If you're serious about wanting to go vegetarian, please, please, *please* make sure you eat a balanced diet. From your list, it would look extremely protein and vitamin/mineral deficient. I know a vegetarian whose idea of a great meal is half a bagel with cream cheese, or a half a box of instant couscous. This is an extremely unhealthful diet.

While a bagel with cream cheese is in fact my idea of a great meal, I know it's not something I can live on. Starting today, I'm going to start eating veggies in hopes of if not falling in love, then at least coming up with some I don't mind eating on a regular basis.

For protein, well, I still have to figure out that end. Beans if I like them, maybe infrequent chicken if I don't. Though peanut butter should have protein? I won't be getting totally meatless right away, so I have time to read and research stuff still. (I'm going to try to phase meat out as I make other things parts of my diet.)

tofu

Since I really don't cook much, when I get up to trying it I figured I might do it at a Chinese food place (or something like that). However, the more and more I think about trying tofu, the more I get that squicky feeling. It's moved down on my list.

Buy fresh, and invest in a steamer basket. And work on cooking without overcooking. And don't forget that fruit is good for you, too!

Luckily I like a lot of fruits, so that's not a problem. And I need to snag a kiwi from the kitchen to try, too. (Never had one, but lots of people say they're good.)

I don't think I have a steamer basket, but I need to make a trip to Target anyway. Might finally pick up a rice cooker, too...

That all said, you made a comment that humans can survive without eating meat. Yes, that's true. However, the human body was *designed* to be omnivorous. If you have ethical issues about the treatment of many animals in food-raising environments, I would encourage you to go the route of the one poster who does the organic, free-range meat. You live in natural food mecca out here, and there's a Whole Foods down on Steven's Creek which would be an ideal place to shop for stuff like that.

I'm really thankful to be living here, yep!

Exactly how far I'm going with meatless is still undecided. The biggest problem is convenience (laziness?) vs beliefs. It's possible that I'll just eat meat as infrequently as possible (though that feels like a cop-out, I keep telling myself that I only have to live up to my own rules and expectations, so there shouldn't be any such thing as a cop-out).

Also, lastly, humans can only forgo meat if their multi-vitamin contains B-12, an essential vitamin which *only* exists naturally in meat. And as it's a B-vitamin, it's water-soluble, meaning it should be taken daily for good health.

I think mine does, but I'll have to check the bottle when I get home.

And please, don't hesitate to talk to me. I think I have a unique set of information sets having been an animal science major *and* studying animal nutrition (which, oddly enough, translates well into human nutrition :)

Thank you! I'll probably take you up on that at some future time. Thanks for all the good advice!

Protein substitutes

[tersa.livejournal.com]

Nuts do have protein, although they're not a great source because they're also very high in oils. Which, can actually be okay.

If you're going to do peanut butter, I would strongly advise getting something like the Laura Scudder's brand, which is unsweetened. Jif, Skippy, et al are heavily sweetened and if you're going to go meat-free, probably not the best option.

(Although, there are instant pad thai packages which would probably be great with the addition of some fried tofu and/or peanuts and peanut butter)

Hmmm. I should haul my Atkins nutritional guide out. It does protein breakdowns, and I can check to see what kinds of non-meat protein substitutes are out there. You may be able to do similarly by searching the web for nutritional guides.

I am betting, if you're amenable, I could find you some tofu dishes that you like.

Re: Protein substitutes

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

You may be able to do similarly by searching the web for nutritional guides.

Yep, that's a sure thing on my list. Oh, and while I'm thinking of it, checking for B12 in my vitamin... yay, says 100%! 100% iron and 50% calcium. Yay women's vitamins.

I am betting, if you're amenable, I could find you some tofu dishes that you like.

Thanks, but tofu's become low on my list. It's the most new of the new things, so it can wait.

If you're going to do peanut butter, I would strongly advise getting something like the Laura Scudder's brand, which is unsweetened.

Yeah, that thought did strike me!