Okay, I'm no expert, but...

[thistlechaser]

Admittedly I've only been watching anime for a couple months now, but I'm seeing so much of this that it can't be just chance: What the heck is the idea of having all female characters either being dumber than dirt, annoying as hell, or out to destroy the world just because some man won't love them? With very, very, very rare exception, there have been no normal/good female characters in any series I've watched.

* Prince of Tennis: Die, die, die you fangirling, clueless, useless girls.
* Whistle: See PoT. (Though in the end there was a clueful woman. *gasp!*)
* Dear Boys: Though the girls' basketball team were the champs for like seven years in a row, the boys run circles around them without effort -- which I suppose is easy since all the girls ever do is cry and cling to the boys... (Okay, the leader of the girls' team cried and clung the most, but the other girls just blushed and admitted over and over that the boys were so much better than them.)
* Fullmetal Alchemist: Only one female "main character" (she has a tiny role), but she's actually a normal, okay (even strong!) character. Yay FMA!
* Hikaru no Go: Another clueless, dumber than used kitty litter girl-character. (Mind you, I'm less than 10 eps into the series, so I don't know if that changes later on.)
* Get Backers: One female character is there only to supply bouncing breasts, the second has the weakest "super power" of the whole group and often needs saving by the boys, and the last one falls into the "useless fangirl of main characters" category.
* Wolf's Rain: The uber-bad guy is a woman who cannot get a man to love her (so let's destroy the world! That'll show him!), the other female main character runs from one end of the Earth to the other in *high heels* and is generally useless other than to get the male main characters to chase after her (to rescue her) and thus deeper into the plot.
* Someday's Dreamers: A rare series with a female main character. While she cries a lot and calls herself stupid/useless/whatever, she's quite a bit better than anime female-character norm.

I'm not a "Rah! Rah! Let's burn our bras!" gal, but sheesh! What's the deal here? And I think I watch "good" series (read: ones where women don't exist solely to be ejaculated on), so you'd think there'd be more quality female characters...

---

I was hoping to get the next set of Whistle! eps up today, but I'm waiting for another download to finish first so that I can give all my bandwidth to seeding. It's going very, very slooooowly, so I'm not sure if I'll make it today or not. (I hope it's a good series (Arc the Lad), the summary of it seemed interesting...)

--

Oh, and I finished Wolf's Rain today. Supposedly there will be four more eps of it once it's released on DVD. Let's hope they make for a better/less crack-smoking ending than the current one. Wolf's Rain is without question the worst series I have finished watching. It's especially sad because there was a lot of potential in it... Oh well, now I finally get to delete it. Woo!

Comments

[mithas.livejournal.com]

I never did get to finish Wolf's Rain... I don't even have it past episode 22. -_-

Arc the Lad was... well, bad, for lack of anything better to say about it. I don't actually quite remember the series enough to give you a substantial review of it. Upon thinking back, there's nothing about it which I can point out exactly that was wrong with it. It's possible that I'm simply rather biased, as I play videogames and Arc the Lad was based on the game for it.

If you're looking for series' with strong female characters then I'd highly recommend (I can never rec this series enough, as my love for it is great and true) watching Juuni Kokki. It has a very well-rounded plot, great characters, character growth is exceptional, and I promise you that you will love this series no matter what.

[quasilemur.livejournal.com]

A rare series with a female main character.

Buh? That's simply not true, but not an unsurprising observation, given your affinity for bishy ass-sex and the like. Accusing something like Dear Boys of having no strong female characters is like watching Beefbangers Behind Bars 6, and whining, "Hey, where're all the chicks?" Seriously, though, there is an overwhelming preponderance of series with female protagonists. And I promise that as many series as present degrading female stereotypes, there are just as many that do the same for males...possible more. It just differs from series to series, and to some extent, genre to genre. You should probably know by now that it's foolish to treat all of anime as one film genre, humor aside.

You're challenging to figure out as far as anime is concerned...Even the most inexperienced of viewers have a broad foundation of references and expectations, based on the viewing of various seminal works. They develop a sort of mental index of the 'way anime works.' Your immersion in the style is somewhat odd, having jumped right into more advanced material without ever seeing the core basics, with no significant community influence to guide you (anime is a rather social phenomenon, despite stereotypes to the contrary.)

But, digression aside, the point is that anyone's observation is limited by their experience. The group of series you selected for your example is not an accurate cross-section of anime as a whole, particularly since several of them fall under the unwritten Boy's Sports anime theme of 'Boys good, girls bad.'

[countrymouse.livejournal.com]

What the heck is the idea of having all female characters either being dumber than dirt, annoying as hell, or out to destroy the world just because some man won't love them?

(Are we talking about women only? Or also "magical girls" or any girls?) Madoka in "Kimagure Orange Road"; um Sailor Mercury and Sailor Mars in "Sailor Moon"; I like all three goddesses in "Oh My Goddess"; I love "Pretty Sammy: The Magical Girl"; "serial experiments lain" is well, different...and I won't say any more about it except that you SHOULD watch it!; Meryl Strife in "Trigun"; and "Vampire Princess Miyu" (hm, you can decide if she's 'out to destroy the world' or not). I am trying to remember some of the other series we have watched. It's been a while, since we haven't been buying any recently; and although Cat'r has been d/l'ing anime, I haven't gotten around to watching, so I can't comment. I know I'm forgetting some other girls/women, but that's all I can come up with at the moment. :-)

[morinotokei.livejournal.com]

I agree with mithas. Juuni Kokki is an awesome series regardless, but the development of its female main character plus a couple other supporting female characters is just amazing.

I also highly recommend Princess Tutu. I know the title sounds stupid, but it's a very unique type of anime with a refreshing storyline and I have much love for the female main character. I also adore this series.

I tend to not like to generalize and stereotype anime, because it's very difficult to do so, but most of the titles you've mentioned with poor female characterization are shounen sports anime (or just shounen anime) for which the target audience is teenage males, so that's part of the problem.

Ooops...

[countrymouse.livejournal.com]

Forgot "Battle Athletes"!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Well, you didn't miss anything by not continuing with Wolf's Rain. I really wanted to like it, and I'd love to be able to rec it, but I can't... :/

Ack! I was hoping Arc would be good. Darn it, I need a new series to get into! Oh well, in a couple hours it'll be finished downloading, no use in ending it now.

Oh, Juuni Kokki! I watched some of that (the first arc? Chapter? I'm now sure how it's broken up), and I liked it quite a bit. I have more eps downloaded (though not all of them). I really should get back to it, it was one of the first series that I liked.

Thanks!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Buh? That's simply not true, but not an unsurprising observation...

Right, that's why I started out mentioning my lack of experience with these things. Given the limited number of things that I've watched (not too many more than I listed in this post), it's perfectly possible that I'm just somehow missing the things with good/normal female characters in them.

Beefbangers Behind Bars 6,

I'm torn between giggling and drooling!

You should probably know by now that it's foolish to treat all of anime as one film genre, humor aside.

Exactly, which is why I have a hard time saying "this is my favorite" or putting my favorites into some kind of order. Apples and oranges.

Your whole second paragraph was interesting; I do sometimes I feel like I jumped into the deep end of the pool with no one around to prod me in the right direction. Though in a way that's cool as well -- it's an adventure! I never know what I'll stumble onto next.

particularly since several of them fall under the unwritten Boy's Sports anime theme of 'Boys good, girls bad.'

See, now that's where I get a little confused. While things like Dear Boys might be about boys and sports, isn't it aimed at girls? I could see just totally leaving female characters out of the picture (which would be cool with me), but why include girl characters and make them suck? (And if something like Dear Boys is aimed at boys, then... buh? Do Japanese boys like boy/boy undertones? Or are they all just missing them and just focusing on the sports?)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Are we talking about women only?

Girls/women/female-human-things. :) It's all good!

I haven't seen anything on your list other than Trigun (so I'll keep my eye open for them!), and of Trigun I've only seen a handful of eps. But didn't the two women just follow Vash around? Since I'm still early on in the series, if they did do something more than just trail after him like little lost puppies I must not have gotten to it yet...

Thanks for the ideas of things to watch!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Funny, I loved the dozen or so Juuni Kokki I saw, I wonder why I can't get back into watching the series? I should give it another shot, it was one of the first ones I really liked.

I've spotted Princess Tutu available for downloading a couple times before, but the title made me semi-twitch. However, since we tend to like the same stuff, next time I see it I'll grab it. (Thanks!)

...but most of the titles you've mentioned with poor female characterization are shounen sports anime (or just shounen anime) for which the target audience is teenage males, so that's part of the problem.

Ah, I see. And here I thought I had picked up mostly a cross-section of non-ecchi anime! Heh. Shows how much I know so far. :}

[bouteillebleu.livejournal.com]

Hikaru no Go: Another clueless, dumber than used kitty litter girl-character. (Mind you, I'm less than 10 eps into the series, so I don't know if that changes later on.)

If you mean Akari, Hikaru's friend, then no. She doesn't get much more clueful or better at Go during the series. There are a few more female characters who appear - a volleyball-playing girl at Hikaru's school, and a girl who's one of the people training to become a pro - but they're far and few between. (I can only think of one female pro in the entire series who even gets named onscreen.)

I agree with quasilemur's comment here - you're probably not seeing any strong female characters because you prefer to watch series with mostly male characters. I'd recommend Battle Athletes (the TV series - I've heard not-so-nice things about the OVA), and Noir (where I don't think there are any male characters who actually survive for more than a few episodes without being killed off) if you want to see more good female characters. Battle Athletes is a sports anime with an all-female cast, and Noir's a show about assassins for hire.

[morinotokei.livejournal.com]

Don't be scared away by Princess Tutu's title, because there's a lot of substance behind the deceptively innocent fairytale-ish storyline. It gets darker and more complex as you progress as well, which you won't be able to tell right away from the earlier episodes. I'm hesitant to link you to reviews about this, because most reviews I've read are quite spoilerish. Anyway, it's one of my all-time favorites, and the style in which the story is told is excellent. I like it as much as Juuni Kokki.

Also, just to let you know, Juuni Kokki and Princess Tutu are both shoujo anime (mainly female target audience). Again though, this doesn't mean that shoujo anime generally has better characterization of women than shounen anime. It really depends on the series.

[countrymouse.livejournal.com]

Re: Trigun:

Um, not like little lost puppies. They work for an insurance company that is concerned with the HUGE amount of property damage (covered by their company) that always seems to happen *around* Vash.

So they have been assigned to somehow find out what's going on and perhaps actually keep Vash out of trouble.

Meryl is hard-working, serious, professional, and responsible. Milly might *seem* like an airhead, but she is a good-hearted and VERY capable woman.

You need to give this series a chance. :-)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay. I don't think I've seen enough. :) And I'd watch it more often, but for some reason it won't play on any of my "good" media players, just one single one which likes to crash many times during an ep. :/

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Funny, "Princess Tutu" and "dark and complex" don't seem to go together, but I'll trust you on that! :) After the next set of Whistle eps, I'll go hunting it down.

Thanks!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yep, I meant his clueless friend. And we just met the volleyball playing girl for the first time in the ep I just watched, but she walked off to play that. :)

Cool, thanks for the recs! I'll hunt them down.

[countrymouse.livejournal.com]

Ah, oh. I hope you'll be able to watch it sometime. Cat'r has it on DVD, so that's how we watched it. :-)

[yachinami.livejournal.com]

Ehh...maybe I just turn a blind eye a lot, or maybe the clueless girls don't really bother me, but I've never really felt a need to seek out series with strong female roles. Then again, I don't really watch series for specifics, and I've been into anime for quite a while now, and I tend to ramble so feel free to ignore me....

I guess a few shows that I'd recommend for the female factor (you may feel differently about the overall stories and such) would be...

Hellsing. There are two main females in this, and they're both pretty good at holding their own. Mind you, it's about vampires, and one is a human, so it's not like she can always be kick ass against the undead, and the other is a servant to the main *male* vampire, but I thought rather highly of the women in this.

Kino no Tabi/Kino's Journey - Just because I think everyone should see this. The main character is female, although if you don't see until a certain episode you may not realize it, and no, that's not really a spoiler, since her being female has no relevance to the progression of the plot.

Any of the .hacks. .hack//SIGN has many admirable females, although many people think the show is boring....I love it though. The OAVs have interesting females too, and .hack//Tasogare no Udewa Densetsu, besides the annoying!Rena, has many cool females in it.

One Piece has some very awesome females. In fact, most of them are.

And well, lots more, but I'm tired of thinking.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Thanks for all the recs! It's not so much that I'm looking for strong female characters, it's that I'd like to avoid the useless ones. :) Even no girls in a series is fine and dandy with me! *trots off to hunt down some of those series*

Thanks!

Don't know if this helps much...

[ze-dragon.livejournal.com]

Strong female characters?

Off the top of my head (and without thinking about it too much), I'd have to say Ayashi no Ceres (or Ceres Celestial Legend in the States). The story revolves around the females since it's about tennyo (angels that came down from heaven and are trapped, their genes being passed through the bloodlines of familes for generations... etc). The main character Aya, is a very typical teenage girl, and IMO strong b/c I sure as hell couldn't deal with half the crap she does at 16. Suzumi (the woman in my icon) is a strong older character, and (once again) IMO is the strongest female in the series. There is also Ceres who's a reincarnated tennyo with her own agenda.

I'll have to agree with the person that said Vampire Princess Miyu (though only the OVA, I couldn't really get into the series).

Angel Links has a strong female lead. Blue Seed, the main character (Momiji) is weak at the beginning, but since she's only 15 or 16 I don't think it's bad. She grows up a lot during the series.

If you're looking for really slashy animes though I can only think of Ceres. There isn't any yaoi canon, but if you want there are gorgeous boys and a nice amount of subtext.

/relurk

Re: Don't know if this helps much...

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

All recs help, and especially since I hadn't heard of those before! So thanks!

And I love the icon. :)

[phoenixtoashes.livejournal.com]

My mom's always steered my sister and I towards books and stuff with at least one strong, self-supporting female character in them. Usually the whole plot is built around that character.

As such, it's probably not too much of a surprise (or maybe it is) when I say one of my favorite movies is G.I. Jane. And my tolerance for air-headed, female anythings is pretty much nil. At best, I sit there, peering at the screen in shock while I wonder how the hoop they can be so stupid.

Here's to hoping you find better female characters in your adventures in anime. *lifts a can of Coke*

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Hee, thanks!

[tricianna.livejournal.com]

While things like Dear Boys might be about boys and sports, isn't it aimed at girls?

Actually, Dear Boys has always been aimed at boys...the first arc of the manga has ten tons of fanservice, along with the sports of course. I guess they decided to tone down on the fanservice a bit in the anime incarnation (but leaving lots of important shots of the Coach's ample bosom, of course)

However, I think you have a good point about having such pretty characters in a series that's supposed to be for "boys," eg. Dear Boys, Hikaru no Go, etc. Maybe it's their attempt to blur the lines on what's supposed to be for boys or girls. After all, if this will give you reach to a greater audience, why not give it a try?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Ah, I hadn't seen the manga.

Maybe it's their attempt to blur the lines on what's supposed to be for boys or girls.

That, or I wonder if they thought boys would just miss it, but girls (or people looking for slashy vibes) would pick up on it?

[quasilemur.livejournal.com]

Ah, in my pedantic rambling, I forgot to rec anything. Hmm...Habane Renmei is an odd, quite cute little series with loads of characterization. Also on the 'strong female character' list, is one of my favorites...Read or Die. I can't recommend that one enough, although you'll appreciate it more if you're a big ol' geek...Historical references of varying obscurity abound.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

A couple people have recommended Read or Die, I just haven't gotten around to trying it. The other one I haven't heard of yet, but both go on the list. Thanks!

[quasilemur.livejournal.com]

Oops...I meant to say Haibane Renmei. Otherwise known as Charcoal Feather Federation.