Prop 8: Sad

[thistlechaser]

As of 6:30 AM this morning, with 94.6% ( 24073 of 25423 ) precincts of reporting, "yes" (change the California constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman) has passed.

Yes: 5,125,752 52.1%
No: 4,725,313 47.9%

I know I say this all the time, but I just don't understand it. If you do not like gay sex, if you do not want to be involved in a same-sex relationship, then don't. Why do these people feel like they should be able to force their opinions onto others?

Also, why would anyone feel that anything anyone else does can change the quality of their marriage? (Or whatever the wording of that stupid fear was.) The value of your marriage is set by you and the person you're married to, not by anyone else. If you let others set the value on your relationship, then something's very wrong...

Thankfully the California Supreme Court has said repeatedly they'll overturn this (again) if it passes. Thank god (irony!) that progress will be forced upon people; even if they're dragged kicking and screaming, we will move forward to a less hate-filled future. I'm just sorry it has to be forced on people...

Comments

[tacrozar.livejournal.com]

The religious right likes to oppress the freedom of others because it is against their own beliefs. Ironic isn't it? America was founded on the belief of freedoms... two of them being religious freedom and freedom from oppression. Its pretty obvious that there still are more conservative californians.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

I think it's kinda silly. I mean, if gay marriage is allowed, then pretty much your argument about why it would matter for anyone not gay.

But then if gay marriage isn't allowed then whoppy crap. Not gonna stop gay people from loving each other deeply and living together and doing everything as if they were married anyways. Personally I think the whole concept (marriage that is) is kinda over rated since if any 2 people truly love each other it doesn't matter for shit what anyone else thinks. That's how I look at it anyways.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

What baffles me is the idea that civil rights should ever be put to popular vote. We had one (extremely right-wing) politician in Canada named Stockwell Day who proposed putting to referendum any matter that garnered the signatures of at least 3% of Canadians on a petition - hoping to aim this at same-sex marriage and abortion rights. Within a month, more than 3% of Canadians had signed a petition demanding that his name be legally changed to Doris, and that was the end of that.

[iamthesteve.livejournal.com]

What I don't get is that probably everybody who voted against gay marriage is probably for pro-life.

These pro-life want babies put up for adoption. I just don't understand why they are making these kids have an even SMALLER chance of getting adopted now.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Personally I think the whole concept (marriage that is) is kinda over rated since if any 2 people truly love each other it doesn't matter for shit what anyone else thinks.

Totally agreed. *I* wouldn't want to get married, but I think anyone who does want to should be able to... no matter who they love. The two people in love are the only people who should be able to decide this.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately there are many right wing people in CA. The state is so big, there are lots of conservatives spread out in our open areas and farm lands. :/

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Within a month, more than 3% of Canadians had signed a petition demanding that his name be legally changed to Doris, and that was the end of that.

*rolls* That's great!

What baffles me is the idea that civil rights should ever be put to popular vote.

And totally agreed. It's a right, why is it up for debate?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

That's a point, too. :/

[phoenix-leandra.livejournal.com]

Because heaven forbid they should be raised by t3h gey! They'll catch it! And it'll warp their brains to sin and satanism!

/s

Sad to think some people actually think that way...

[gab.livejournal.com]

On the plus side, look how close it was. That makes me happy. It's kind of like when they were trying to abolish slavery all those years ago... They decided that it wouldn't work then, but the seeds were planted. It took them a while, but they finally abolished it. And we've made great progress. We're still making great progress. Things are changing, and pretty soon, those people who voted to pass prop 8 will have to change, too. Sooner than later. It will come. :)

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

God bless 22 minutes!

[peppygrowlithe.livejournal.com]

I'm an optimistic person. I believe that people generally make the right decisions over a long period of time, even if they make silly mistakes in the process. I can usually see both sides of the issue, and even if I take a strong standpoint, I usually understand the opposition very well.

There is no rational for the other side in this one. There is simply no basis for this proposition passing. Even if we choose to not challenge Christianity and/or its views on homosexuality as a sin, it simply doesn't make sense. Isn't a high divorce rate and a considerable amount of domestic violence a greater threat to marriage than homosexuality? What if I want to have a gay Pagan marriage, or a marriage under a religion that doesn't treat homosexuality as a cardinal sin? If we can pass laws to prevent gays from marrying, shouldn't we also pass laws preventing anybody who isn't Christian from doing the same, presuming it is a sin to not accept Jesus into your heart? Is it fair to criminalize pastors who interpret the Bible differently? Do these people genuinely believe that "separate but equal" still works?

This doesn't even touch upon the fact that there is genetic evidence for homosexuality, thousands of cases of it (not just dominance, but actual homosexual preference) in nature, and the theories on as to why it's evolutionarily advantageous. I didn't think we would need to justify it.

I know, I know - I'm preaching to the choir. I don't have to convince you of anything. I just wish I could hear some reason other than "I don't want my child to grow up gay". There must be some convincing, reasonable, logical argument for proposition 8 that I simply have yet to hear that justifies such a blatant manipulation of civil rights. I refuse to believe that half of the state of my birth simply voted this way "because they don't like gay people". The world in this day and age simply does not work like that.

[quasilemur.livejournal.com]

As an issue, it even goes beyond one's feelings on homosexuality or same-sex marriage:

People actually voted to change a constitution to take away people's rights. Period.

That is a terrifying precedent, and if these people could see an inch beyond their pastor's opinions, they'd see the very real possibility of it biting them in the ass down the road.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Progress for sure! I'm just impatient, I guess. :)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Replying to you in reverse order:

I just wish I could hear some reason other than "I don't want my child to grow up gay". There must be some convincing, reasonable, logical argument for proposition 8...

I had had a couple vocal Conservatives on my friends list, but in the past month they all unfriended me for political reasons (*rolls eyes*), so unfortunately you won't find that info here. It's really too bad, as I (apparently unlike them) enjoyed hearing the other side of the argument.

I'm an optimistic person.

You know I'm pretty much the opposite, so take the rest of this with that grain of salt.

I believe that prop 8 passing came out of hatred and fear and a desire to make everyone else act "right" (right according to them). The whole "Of course my religion is the only right one!!! You better get into line and believe or you're going to hell!!!" type thing. Religious people can be bullies, and they're amazingly two-faced ("love thy neighbor"? What, unless he's a fag?).

Blah. I could rant forever about this. Prop 8 passing really doesn't surprise me, unfortunately. I do not believe that the general population will do the right thing, I believe it has to be forced onto them and eventually they'll get used to it and accept it. *negative*

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

People actually voted to change a constitution to take away people's rights. Period.

What he said. Bah.

[gab.livejournal.com]

You've got every right to be impatient. I'm frustrated, myself. (and a religious conservative, I guess). I am going to just keep my fingers crossed and pray that this nonsense is over soon. Equal rights and no discrimination! FTW!

Progress progress progress...

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, a democracy of chimps can't ever be a good democracy.

You know what we need? A dictatorship where the person in charge isn't balls to the walls insane and decides to randomly wipe millions of people off the earth for some stupid reason. Would probably end up being like the best nation ever.

[tharpy.livejournal.com]

Thankfully the California Supreme Court has said repeatedly they'll overturn this (again) if it passes.

I hate to burst your bubble here... but the purpose of making this a constitutional amendment is so that the California Supreme Court CAN'T overturn it. That's the reason its an amendment and not just a regular law. Its up to the US Supreme Court to invalidate now.

I agree with your post though ;-;

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Aw man, if that's the case, shoot me now. :/

[socksofjello.livejournal.com]

Over a thousand reasons to vote no.

They legalized discrimination. Legalized discrimination. Why can't they see what's wrong with this?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if you're being tongue-in-cheek or not, but either way I agree. "A democracy of chimps can't ever be a good democracy" sums it up perfectly. While I wouldn't have an issue with a dictatorship, I would worry about the "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" thing. I don't see an easy solution either way. :/

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Because it's "OMG GAY!" and homosexuality is against the Bible... and we're all in the wrong for not believing that that the Bible is literal law. :/

[socksofjello.livejournal.com]

I have seen a number of people claim they voted yes 'not because I'm homophobic' but 'for religious reasons'. Because 'marriage is traditionally a union between man and woman'.

I'm just--I need to get away from the forums I've been reading. I think something in my head might rupture.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I'm just--I need to get away from the forums I've been reading. I think something in my head might rupture.

*laughs* That might be a good idea then!