Faith in people, no faith in people

[thistlechaser]

Something good and something annoying!

Here in California, we have two folks running for governor. Meg Whitman, Republican, CEO of Ebay, and Jerry Brown, who has been in the CA political system for 50+ years.

Meg Whitman has not only never once held an office of any kind, she has not even voted in the last 40 years. But of course, the insane teabaggers are all big on "political outsiders" at the moment, so she's a popular right wing person. (Experience? Who needs experience! It's better to have none!)

Meg Whitman has now spent 104 million dollars of her own money on political ads. For months now, it's like there is no music on the radio, just her commercials. No one needs laundry soap or fast food either, at times it seems like nothing but her commercials on TV.

On the other hand, I haven't seen one single commercial by Jerry Brown. Not one. Ever.

Their standings, as of this morning?
Meg Whitman 44%
Jerry Brown 43%

HA! So maybe, maybe I can have more faith in California residents. Maybe. Meg Whitman said the most horrible things about non-right wing people when she was going for the Republic nomination, I can only hope everyone else remembers it as well as I do. She supported Arizona's racist immigration laws! Don't forget that, Hispanics of California!

---

The less good story is about this mosque that they're trying to build at ground zero. I had really, really thought that Americans understood that not all Muslims were terrorists.

Muslim:terrorist::Christians:KKK members

I really don't get this blind hatred, this lashing out without thought at others...

Edit: I've used the same shorthand that the news and such is using. It's far from just a mosque. It's a whole center, including rec things (basketball courts) and buildings to study in. It's also not exactly at ground zero, but close to it.

Comments

[gmth.livejournal.com]

I had really, really thought that Americans understood that not all Muslims were terrorists.

Not only that, but it's not a mosque, and it's not being built at Ground Zero. I've defriended a few people on Facebook this week because the Not Getting It is too strong.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

It's a whole center, right? A rec area, basketball courts, some kind of study tower? There's a mosque as well, right? It's just not the focus of it?

*takes a closer look at Google for the exact location* "600 feet from Ground Zero". Close, not at! Okay, I'll edit, thanks! <3

[gmth.livejournal.com]

Right, it's a community center that happens to include an area for prayer.

Timothy McVeigh was a Christian, I wonder why these people didn't get all up in arms about churches being built in Oklahoma City. Oh wait, no I don't.

(Sorry, this whole situation is just really bugging me.)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Timothy McVeigh was a Christian, I wonder why these people didn't get all up in arms about churches being built in Oklahoma City. Oh wait, no I don't.

Exactly. It makes me so sad and disappointed in people.

"But Islam is a violent religion!"

Yeah. And why did people kill witches? And why do they kill gay people today? Pot, kettle.

[voidmagus.livejournal.com]

I actually heard a report on NPR on this topic - specifically that the ADL was asking the people setting up the Muslim Center to reconsider. Their argument was pretty sound, the gist of it being that the choice in location is in relatively poor taste. They gave an example of the Catholic church wanting to build a Convent (or is it Nunnery?) next to the site of one of the bigger concentration camps. The ADL appealed to their sense of 'taste' and the planned convent was built to a mile or two away instead. source

Also - no witches died in America. Just one old guy (who was pressed). The UK was all about burning people though. Witch, Catholic (when Protestants in power), Protestant (when Catholics in power), etc.

In the end, seems religion makes people crazy. Or at least gives a good excuse to already crazy people (video games fill this role sometimes too).

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember hearing about the ADL. That's the con argument I have less of an issue with -- not no issue, but less. But see, if it's a matter of 'taste', again you (not you-you) are implying that there's something wrong with that religion. The comment above really summed it up for me: "Timothy McVeigh was a Christian, I wonder why these people didn't get all up in arms about churches being built in Oklahoma City.". How come there's no question of taste there?

In the end, seems religion makes people crazy. Or at least gives a good excuse to already crazy people

Sad but true. Not always, but too often.

[voidmagus.livejournal.com]

In the interview, the ADL mouthpiece summarized that you don't start reaching out to a community by slapping them in the face, even if you meant it to be friendly.

McVeigh isn't quite analogous, I think. He was an anti-government nut, not a Christian seeking martyrdom (at least, from what I've read). He might've been, however, and I still doubt you'd get much complaint - when the majority of the population in that area is Christian, even a christian terrorist will be written off as some other type of nutjob. Islam is a foreign belief system, and most Americans don't have much exposure to it (nor will they try to be exposed to it). The little bit of exposure they do have is from the media, which is less than helpful. This is the exact bit of ignorance this Islamic Center wants to elucidate, but they aren't dealing with rational, well-informed people. When dealing with a frightened wild animal (or in this case, a mob), you first have to show that you're not a threat -- make nonthreatening motions, back away slowly (or quickly, if it comes to that). Otherwise, I'm afraid the constructed Center will meet with opposition of a far more destructive nature.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Rrrr. You're convincing me. I don't think it's the right thing to do, I think they should darned well build wherever the heck they want to and people should just accept that, but... that would be in a perfect world and this isn't one.

[voidmagus.livejournal.com]

We're in complete agreement on that. This whole mess has thoroughly disappointed me, in Americans and New Yorkers in particular. Now, having argued that people are irrational and should be treated as such....New York bills itself as the face of America to the world, and boasts a rather liberal (and they like to say open-minded) mindset compared to the rest of America (excepting some extreme liberal zones - parts of New England, pacific NW, etc). What kind of example does this set?

[avocado-love.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking about this the other day. I haven't seen ONE Jerry Brown ad. I'm like, what is he waiting for? But I guess he's just being outspent. *sigh*

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I wonder if he's waiting to the last minute to spend his money? Since there's no way in hell he can keep up with her spending? But if so, I worry it might be too late at that point...

People have such goldfish memories, I really worry they'll forget about what she said earlier and just hear the "jobs jobs jobs" message she's spewing now.

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

If Christianity wasn't the dominant religion of the US, you wouldn't hear so much. They are intolerable to ANYTHING that is outside of their norms.

Your mentioning of how KKK has a dominant Christian theme made me wonder how African-Americans ever got let into churches (I know many of them were forced into Christianity by their masters back during that era, so that's how they even picked up that religion.).

I'm going to stop before I turn into full-on Christian-basher mode. =3

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

They are intolerable to ANYTHING that is outside of their norms.

That pretty much sums it up, yep.

Your mentioning of how KKK has a dominant Christian theme made me wonder how African-Americans ever got let into churches (I know many of them were forced into Christianity by their masters back during that era, so that's how they even picked up that religion.).

Hmm, I don't know, but I bet it'd be an interesting thing to research! Maybe if I have time this week!

[voidmagus.livejournal.com]

They are intolerable to ANYTHING that is outside of their norms.

Christians, check. Muslims, check. Hindus, check (I think...Hindus and Muslims don't exactly get along). Republicans, check. Democrats, check. And just for giggles...Atheists? (at least the militant ones) check. Yep, that sentence works from pretty much any group when plugged into "They." Plus, the statement includes some nice distancing language, to imply that my group isn't like them.

I recently finished reading The Diamond Age: A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer, and ever since I've been wondering about what makes cultures behave this way. The book suggests (outright at times) that certain cultures, regardless of what religion or political view they take, tend towards success and power because of the values shared by its members. Gather enough of any cultural group together, and they tend to be intolerant of any member of another group. One of the only groups (the novel calls them "phyles") that did not share a religion, ethos, ethnicity, etc had a ritual for joining that creates a synthetic bond between its members- on a regular basis, members of the Distributed Republic had to entrust their life to another member. They never knew when they would be the trusted, or the truster. But even given this single shared experience, members of this phyle would distrust outsiders, and could be very disdainful.

Why? Are we, as a species, just that big a bunch of assholes?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Gather enough of any cultural group together, and they tend to
be intolerant of any member of another group. ... Why? Are we, as a species, just that big a bunch of assholes?

I think it has to do with our species's background. Monkeys, chimps, etc live in troops, and they'll fight with other groups. The more one troop was an "asshole" to another, the better things would be for the group -- drive the others off and you get more feeding area, better places to sleep, whatever. So we've evolved to be group-centric, to hate those who are different than us.

It's just some of us have learned to go beyond that, while others are still up in the trees flinging poo at Evil Outsiders.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

I lost faith in people long ago. However I still hold out hope for any person though.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Good point... No idea why I still keep hoping for people to be good and kind and loving. :/

[quistie.livejournal.com]

Playing devil's advocate a little bit here, but I don't think experience is ever a factor in elections. Generally speaking, people don't even think about who is the best candidate for the job, but rather whose political beliefs match their own. Or, at the very least, whose political beliefs offend them less.

As for me, I must say that no matter the qualification, I can never vote for someone who insists on teaching Creationism in the classrooms. I don't think I am entirely wrong in thinking that...but that doesn't sound quite right, either.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, true. Though in this case, that she hasn't even registered to vote once in 40-something years would be the deciding factor for me. She just suddenly, out of the blue, started to care? But didn't start by registering, she started by running for the highest state office?

As for me, I must say that no matter the qualification, I can never vote for someone who insists on teaching Creationism in the classrooms

100% agreed. It's not an alternate theory, it's religious bunk.

[quistie.livejournal.com]

Maybe she just refuse to vote for anyone other than herself? :P

Well, as much as I find it difficult to respect anyone insisting on Creationism, why if the said person happens to be the best possible candidate in every other respect? There is still a good chance I'd not vote for that person. But...is that really the right thing to do? Shouldn't we vote for the best possible candidate, regardless of what their political/religious beliefs may be?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Maybe she just refuse to vote for anyone other than herself? :P

HA! :D

I think it depends where your line is. Obama is not for same sex marriages, which is a darned big issue for me, but I voted for him anyway. If he believed in Creationism, I would not have (I just wouldn't have voted at all). Views on marriage is a difference in opinion, but Creationism... that's a lack of an understanding or acceptance of reality. If you choose fiction over science, well then... good luck to you, but I sure as heck aren't going to vote for you.