Ellie New Cat: Update

[thistlechaser]

socksofjello noted that I hadn't posted about Ellie New Cat in a while. For new readers, I adopted Ellie after my previous cat died. Ellie was feral for the first year of her life and in a foster care home with lots of other cats for her second year. I've had her for about four months now.

I replied to socksofjello that I hadn't been posting because Ellie had been making no progress at all, that she was basically still the same as the last time I posted. But the more I thought about it, the more I suspected she's still making slow, slow (think glacial) progress, but I'm just not seeing it because I'm with her all the time (and it's so slooooow).

A few times a day, she comes to me for love. "Love" being careful, slow, one-handed pattings. Brushes are scary and will cause her to run. Nine times out of ten, a second hand will cause a panic attack and a scramble away. She's come to love treats though, and has learned to take them out of my hand (woot!).

If I approach her, sometimes it will be okay, but most often she'll run off a few feet or just tense up and watch me wide-eyed, ready to flee.

Unfortunately she rarely sleeps on my bed. However, I can now walk near her without making her run off in a panic.

A couple times a day, when she seems calm, I still try to work with her, to introduce a second hand to things. Sometimes I hold her (with all of her feet still on the floor) for a couple seconds. After this I give her lots of pats (if she wants them) or treats. I still wonder if I should be doing this though; I need (not want, need) her to get used to being held and picked up. If there were a fire or some emergency, I could never grab her and take her outside at this point. However, working with her this way seems to make her backslide, so... Just not sure.

I think she must be more comfortable though, because more of her personality(?) is coming out. She's a bold little thief! Not for food, she's never tried to get into my dinner when I'm eating, but she'll attempt to carry anything and everything else away. Anything from my keys (metal! Heavy!) to a back scratcher (longer than her!). Anything on my desk is fair game, all sorts of toys and pens and papers. She steals things right in front of me, with me watching. It's darned cute to watch her try to carry these things off.

My user name, Thistle-Chaser, comes from a series of books by rathacat. Set on another planet, the dominant species is a cougar-like cat. Some of them talk, they herd animals, and live in clans. Thistle-Chaser was the daughter of a clan cat named Ratha and an "unnamed" (wild) cat. When a clan (intelligent, talking) cat breeds with a wild one, the offspring are usually wild (unintelligent). Ratha was impatient with her litter, scared they wouldn't have "light in their eyes" (be intelligent). She gave up on Thistle-Chaser too soon, attacking her and driving her off. Thistle-Chaser had just been starting to understand, to realize that language existed and was important; Ratha pushed too hard and gave up on them too soon. I feel kind of like that with Ellie. Being impatient, lashing out, would be bad bad bad. It feels like so long though, I just want to hug her and hold her on my shoulder like a baby, but I can't. Worst part is, I don't know if we'll ever get to that point. Four months feels like a long time, but maybe it's not.

Must be patient, must be slow, must be quiet. Silly Ellie, I'm not going to hurt you. Please learn that soon.

Comments

[bricriu.livejournal.com]

One thing to keep in mind, and I say this from years of working with "secondhand" birds, shelter dogs, shelter cats, and other various animals that haven't come from decent backgrounds, weren't socialized properly, or were mistreated:

Don't try to make her into something you want her to be, as disappointing as it might be to you personally, she may never be a 'cuddler' or a cat that's comfortable being carried, held, or even petted for extended periods.

Find her comfort level and don't try to push her beyond where she's ready to go because you wish she were at a different point or get impatient (and I know how easy it is.).

The hardest part is accepting that she may never be that cat that you were hoping a good environment would let her become.

One of my birds is like this, to a degree.
He was treated badly in all of his previous homes; things thrown at him, yelling, cage hitting, bird hitting, spending nearly 24 hours covered or locked in a closet/shed ("too loud"), and he's messed up because of it.

We've had him for three years, and he still only begrudgingly accepts handling for short (as in a few seconds) amount of time and if he's not near his cage, and only from me. He'll go for blood on anyone else who tries to come near him to handle him,
Very rarely, I can sit with him and preen his feathers, but usually attempts at that result in flying away, running away, screaming, thrashing or biting. I spent time, instead of trying to make him into a cuddly bird (and it's fairly common for quakers to LOVE being cuddled) and just watched to see what it was that HE was comfortable with. The more I made an effort to stay within his comfort zone, the more comfortable he became in general.
Those times I tried to push him to 'accept more', it always backfired and made me almost have to start over regaining his trust because all it taught him was that when he 'trusted' me I'd do things that were terrifying and bad in his mind.

It was hard to do that, though, to let him be who he was (doubly so since he is that bird because of how he was mistreated in the past) and not try to mold him into the bird I wanted him to be.
I wanted so much for him to have that 'well adjusted, cuddler' inside of him somewhere that just needed a stable home and a good keeper to come out, but...sometimes it's just not there anymore.

It can help with the frustration to try and focus more on the things that have become better (as slow as they might happen) about her than to look ahead to where you want her to be some day.

[bricriu.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, about the four months bit: It seems like a long time when you're the one trying to work through it, but in terms of the amount of time it can take to 'fix' a mistreated animal, it's more realistic to look at it in terms of years, not months.

With Tilly (our Elkhound) it took us over a year to get her to the point that raised arms didn't make her fall over and pee on herself. At some point, SOMEONE had used that gesture to hit her when she misbehaved, and it took quite some time to get her to fully realize that that wasn't going to ever happen again. She still sometimes does it if arms are raised by people she doesn't know or if you raise them too fast.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Poor Tilly! I wish there were so much more control over who could have animals and how they're treated...

You're probably right about years, too. Must be patient, must be patient...

[bricriu.livejournal.com]

Whenever people try, someone always starts whining about "rights" and how they have the "right" to own pets or the "right" to breed them and that nobody else has any "right" to tell them that they don't.

Breeders actually fought AGAINST anti-puppy mill legislation here because it would make it "too hard" or "too expensive" for them to breed their BYB, 'poor quality' (just because it has papers doesn't mean it's genetically healthy) dogs to sell for $400+ per pup on craigslist or in the newspaper.

If running all of the mediocre breeders (which is usually where shelter purebreds originate, good breeders have contracts that require the animal be returned TO THEM if the owner can no longer care for it) is a casualty of forcing puppy mills out of business, it's a casualty I'll happily take.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Those times I tried to push him to 'accept more', it always backfired and made me almost have to start over regaining his trust because all it taught him was that when he 'trusted' me I'd do things that were terrifying and bad in his mind.

Yeah, I see that a lot. Trust is so slowly built and so easily lost.

My mother is pushing me to get another cat, but I can't decide if that's right or not (for me or for Ellie). If I had a second cat, less of my focus would be on Ellie (which would be good and bad), and I'd want/need less from her. I'm leaning strongly towards just sticking with one cat, especially since I don't know if a second would make her happy or make things worse for her.

It can help with the frustration to try and focus more on the things that have become better (as slow as they might happen) about her than to look ahead to where you want her to be some day.

That's a good idea. I had my previous cat for 18 years, we were so close, it's really hard for me not to hope Ellie will get to that same point, too.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

I wonder if going for 2 hands is too fast. Like, you mention that she will still run sometimes when you walk up to her or give you the "Oh crap!" eyes. I'd probably focus on that. Get her to the point where you can approach her (first step), reach down (second step), give her some pats (third step), and then move on (end). Once you get her to the point where that is fine the majority of the time then try to bring in the second hand now and then. Once that's done (by done, I mean she's fine with it eh majority of the time like last step) then to holding. Although like bricriu stated, it might turn out that Ellie isn't really a cuddling cat at heart, which is fine.

My thought process is that if you can get her to the point where you can reach down and pat her as a normal thing, then your like half a second away from grabbing her (in the event of, say, a fire like you used). Ya, she won't like it and you'll probably get scratched up in the process but if it comes to that or cat-kabob it's an obvious choice to me.

Obviously the ideal solution would have been to have her a-ok with being picked up and then it's nothing crazy and she'll be perfectly comfortable. However since you can't really time an emergency I would think it better to lay the ground work for a "Oh shit have to gtfo!" moment first, and then have that lead to the desired outcome. Plus that can put your mind at ease a little better that the ability to grab her and get out is an acceptable action and you won't just be trying to catch her.

The one cat we adopted is very shy (has been since we got her) and doesn't do picking up or anything like that. Also when you walk up to her she gives the similar big "Oh crap" eyes. Generally how I approach her if I'm going to give her pats is I reach in back handed. That way it doesn't look like I'm trying to grab, more like I'm introducing my hand so she can inspect it and make sure there is nothing sneaky going on. I figure it's less threatening and then she can get a sniff in before I try anything. Once she's satisfied I'm not up to no good then I can commence petting.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

(in the event of, say, a fire like you used). Ya, she won't like it and you'll probably get scratched up in the process but if it comes to that or cat-kabob it's an obvious choice to me.

As a side note, I never had any idea what holding an angry/scared cat was like. Couple weeks back I had to move her for some reason (using both my hands) and suddenly I had this thing that was all claws. I swear, it was like she was covered with clawed feet from head to toe. Somehow she was "attacking" (defensively) me from every single direction. It was at that point I realized I wouldn't be able to carry her out of a burning apartment by force. I released her right away, I don't know how long it would have taken to get her teeth involved as well.

Also when you walk up to her she gives the similar big "Oh crap" eyes.

Heh! I know just the eyes you mean.

Thanks for the good ideas!

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean by all claws. I had to move my Mom's cat once (back when she hated me because of the things I did to her when I was really young, like I don't even remember young) and it was pain and lots of it. I have found through that experience (and "fighting" with the Dog) that my single arm technique seems to cause minimal injury.

Animal goes up into the armpit area, arm goes around and under the animal and hand holds onto the chest area (between the front 2 legs). The pressure of my arm holding them up into the armpit keeps them from getting away and with the hand under the 2 front arms they can't really get me with those. Also, despite cats being flexible, they can't really bend down that steeply to get the teeth involved effectively.

Although you end up with some wicked pain in the back of your arm (damn hind legs!) but given the alternatives I'm sure it would be bearable. Obviously it's an "emergency" situation technique with Ellie but that's how I carry our animals now when I need to. Although the cat likes it better when I give her hind legs more support (with my shoulder/side of body, this could also prevent "flailing death claws" from hind legs) but the dog doesn't give a damn.

[firebyrd.livejournal.com]

Best solution in an emergency type situation with a cat that's not going to let you grab them without injury is to put them in a pillowcase. Obviously it's not something you'd want to do for a cat that has trust issues with you for anything short of an emergency, but if it's a matter of life and death, it's much better for both of you. Especially with a cat, because if you happen to get bitten and not just scratched...well, having to go to the hospital to keep from getting a life threatening infection when you're being evacuated because of a fire in your area isn't exactly a great situation.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Good idea! I had heard of that long ago, but forgotten about it. Luckily she's good about getting in the carrying case, so if I had a couple minutes I could get her in. If there were no time for even a pillowcase, I'd just have to open a window (if it were safe enough to) and hope for the best. :/