Thank you, little Miss Undercutter (WoW)

[thistlechaser]

Undercut me once, okay, happens.
Undercut me repeatedly, I'll peer your way, but it happens.
Undercut me repeatedly across multiple items, and it's war.

There's a small time seller who dabbles in my markets. Harmless to let her sell a few of my items? No, not really. Big sellers aren't born that way, everyone starts out small. "Hey, this stuff sells, I make money! I should sell more!" New sellers need to be stomped soundly out.

So this one person who keeps undercutting me. I looked her up on one of the AH websites, found everything else she's selling, and I'm in the process of making those items. See, my army of level 85s has a purpose.

While looking that up, something at the top of the page caught my eye. One of the "hot" items listed. A Tabard of the Lightbringer. 90K. Hmm.

While I have no real use for it, I grabbed it. I could put it on my AH mule. I might just hold onto it. If we get more slots per server and I can finally have a paladin, it might be better on that. Of course, they'll only get more common as time goes on, too.

I know it's silly to buy an expensive thing that I don't really, really want, but I try to let myself do that if the mood strikes me. I have the money. What's the use of just sitting on it? I might as well spend it if there's something rare for sale.

Oh, and the Crimson Deathcharger that was sold for 42K (sob!) and someone is now trying to flip for 150K? Welcome to the world of my rooster, baby. I'm sorry you've had to relist it so many times. Hopefully one day someone like me will come along and buy it for that price. *hugs Thistle's horse so much* I swear, that horse makes me so happy. :D

Sometimes I really, really love playing the AH.

Edit: Any deleted comments were deleted by the people who wrote them. I do not delete comments (other than spam).

Comments

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

Thistle is like AH Bruce Banner.

Generally? Really nice, unassuming. Someone moves in on markets? Becomes a golden unstoppable death machine.

[firebyrd.livejournal.com]

There will never be many Tabards of the Lightbringer around. The only time they become available is the first time someone with the legendary Shadowmourne kills the LK. And usually someone who is putting that together is going to keep the stuff or has friends that helped to give them to. Basically, it's a rare item and will always remain rare, because Shadowmourne is never going to be easy to get.

Sigh...probably time to help a friend of mine put together another ICC group, though, if I ever want the mount she's thinking of giving me when she finishes.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Hm, good point. I knew the conditions of getting it, but didn't think about the rest. And this time? WRA being a sucky server for raiding works better for me.

The deathcharger? Good luck! It's such a wonderful mount (ignoring the bug that makes it into a damned rocking horse). I almost, almost like the coloring better than the original, too. The red is really nicely eye catching.

And while I'm embarrassed to admit this, the attention I get for it is nice, too. A few times a week people ask me where it came from or how a hunter could be riding a DK mount.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I do feel a little bad about being "mean", but it's necessary. You hold your markets or you lose them.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

A Game of Action Houses?

Clearly s member of the Chaser house. A Chaser always pays his debts.

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

There's a bug that turns the deathcharger into a rocking horse? I so want to see that.

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

There are AH websites? =O

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Ha! I love it.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

There's a bug in the DK mount and crimson death charger that make them run like camels. So they rock horribly back and forth as you run, looks like you're on a rocking horse. I have no idea why it has gone unfixed for the whole damned expansion.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yep! Google for Undermine, that's a good one. Not as good as FFXI AH site had been, but best WoW has.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

If you want to make money, yep! And, in the case of me, have fun at the same time.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

This might get long, I like talking about this stuff.

Are you trying to prevent someone else from using the auction house competitively?

Yes and no. If they're a one-time seller, just moving items they skilled up on, that's fine, they'll likely sell just fine. If they're someone who wants to stay in the market and make the same things on a regular basis? That's where my issue comes in.

Only X number of Y items will sell a day. Say, only 5 Bright Pink Shirts sell a day. If I get undercut and don't relist my stuff, I'll get less (or none) of those 5 sales. It's not a matter of taking it personally (though that is an aspect of the fun: MY market, MY sales), it's that there is a very limited number of sales and I'm not willing to give some up.

Anyone who is a serious seller will be doing the same thing to me -- undercutting me as soon as I relist stuff.

The challenging part of AH PvP is time. I'm at an amazing disadvantage since I work full time (and of course won't bot). There was a seller fighting for my markets for a year and a half. He/she didn't work (they may have been a college student, their online schedule was odd). This person knew my schedule (which isn't hard, as I work a regular job). The moment I logged off to go to work, they undercut me. The moment I went back to work after lunch, undercut. They knew my bedtime and undercut me as soon as I logged for the night. It pissed me off, but that's how the game is played.

Especially since you're already exorbitantly rich.

It's not about the money really, I already have more than anyone could need. I enjoy doing this. Some people like fighting dragons, they learn which fires to get out of, which side to stand on, how to move... I track other sellers. I look for new things to sell. I watch market trends. I look at upcoming notes on MoP and plot what raw materials to stockpile (which I'm already doing, getting ready for the next expansion).

It comes down to this is fun, in the same way I used to find PvP fun and I suppose people find PvE fun. It's something I do, a skill I have/have learned. The "dollar figure" I have at the end of the day is secondary (though a nice way to watch if I'm successful or not).

Does that make sense or do I still sound crazy? :)

[gconnor.livejournal.com]

Usually when I'm undercutting someone, I'm not even aware of who it is. My AH add-on scans the current prices and then prices mine right below. It's configurable but the default is to undercut.

I think you are already ahead of the game if you watch auctions after they have been placed and sometimes remove and re-list. That's way more time commitment than I have chosen to apply :) Pretty much I list everything I'm going to list on Friday night or Saturday early-afternoon and then I don't even pay attention until clearing out my mailbox when preparing for the next weekend (because I usually don't log on that alt but once a week)

Do you have any way of knowing how much better-off you are gold-wise than you would be if you spent one-fifth of the active AH time and attention you currently do? It sounds like you DO enjoy the time spent on the AH so gold not the only concern. If you find something both fun and rewarding, bonus! But like any activity, I get most of my enjoyment during the first hour and the second hour may not be as enjoyable.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Undercutting is almost always the best thing to do, yep! (Unless there are a few low items, then I might list it higher in hopes it'll still sell, but for the better price.)

Not everyone is loaded and not everyone has hours to farm mats so they can avoid AH prices.

Agreed. And not everyone has the time/skill/desire to raid for top gear, too. It's all a matter of what you find fun and where you want to spend your time.

We're not talking about markets I deal in though, other than as a buyer. I buy mats and sell finished products, I rarely farm and sell mats. If I farm (ugh), it's for mats for my own use.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Usually when I'm undercutting someone, I'm not even aware of who it is.

Same. I have to make an effort to know who is uncercutting me, so if I know a seller's name, it's for a reason.

That's way more time commitment than I have chosen to apply :)

Yep! This is the part of the game where I choose to apply my online time (the time I don't spend RPing, anyway). The majority of people just list, come back when they're returned, then relist as needed.

Do you have any way of knowing how much better-off you are gold-wise than you would be if you spent one-fifth of the active AH time and attention you currently do?

Not personally, but other big time sellers have tested it, and they've found that it's not that much different.

There are some folks (like sellers in the glyph market on my server and on Moon Guard) who "play nice" -- they just list things once, don't relist as they're undercut. If EVERY seller in a market does that, it works out for them. But if you introduce a me into their market? Then they'd all have to change or get out.

It sounds like you DO enjoy the time spent on the AH so gold not the only concern.

That's exactly it. This is fun for me. I enjoy camping the AH watching for cheap mats, relisting things as they're undercut. I have no idea why I find that fun, but I do.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

These are not mutually exclusive, so I can confidently say "both".

Ha, yes, I realized that after posting my comment.

The idea of tracking someone's sleep/wake cycle to compromise their auctions is just a little creepy to me.

And agreed, sort of. It is creepy, but it's a common thing among big time sellers. (I don't really like that term, 'big time seller', but I'm not sure what to call people like me.)

but crushing your competition feels like it would be against the concept of a free market.

I think Burger King, Target, and whatever your local big name grocery store chains might disagree. Wouldn't every RL seller like to be the only one in the market? Doesn't Pepsi attack Coke endlessly? You can't do underhanded stuff, but do everything above the board that you can to hold your share of the market.

As someone who's tried to level enchanting before (!!?!?!?!?!?!) there's a real shitty side to one person "owning" a market and fixing the price at whatever they want.

But that's a great opportunity, too! If only one person controls the market, challenge him. With only one seller in the market, there's a chance for you to make big gold, too.

Re: Relisting vendor things:
If people don't do the research and figure out where to buy the item from, they deserve to pay the mark up. As you said, the item is unlimited, anyone could go and buy it. If someone doesn't want to make the trip or do the research? Then they pay the AH price.

Just as a small FYI: I try not to name actual items I'm in the market on. No need making it easier for other people to do it, too. I'm going to screen your comment, but if I understand LJ right, you should still be able to reply to this one. Poke me on IM if I'm wrong.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I really don't understand this. I can't have top level gear -- I don't want to raid, I don't want to do the research on it, I don't have the skill. Does that mean I deserve the gear anyway?

This is where I choose to put my time in, like a raider chooses to learn to raid. Should everyone be equal? Should someone who plays an hour a week have just as much as someone who gives up going out for dinner to farm?

Maybe that person who called you "my favorite Communist" last night was closer to accurate than she knew. ;)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

*nodnods* Understood.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure which way you mean ridiculous to be. Our prices are so much lower on things like glyphs and gems than other servers. I mean a fraction of the price. When Cara dropped, our gems were a quarter to a fifth the price of other servers! It drove me insane.

We have a crapton less mats available, too.

I love WRA for the RP, but I hate our markets so much.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

You're boasting about the golden opportunity that your tactics create for other people on a post that's about how you're waging war on some girl for doing exactly that. Just so you know.

Of course, yes. o.O When did I say someone couldn't try? That guy I mentioned, the one in my market for a year and a half? The only reason he's gone now is that he seems to have quit WoW.

Anyone can try to break into any market. I wasn't born with the ones I was in. Anyone can (and should!) try. But the people who currently have the market will try to keep them. Both sides are right, neither is wrong.

That may be how you get your kicks but to me and the rest of us who have to pay your lousy rates after you chase off anyone who isn't as enamored with profiteering, it sucks.

Well, that's your opinion on it. I'm not doing anything you can't do. You choose not to. It's your choice. It's a 100% fine choice. Everyone should put the time into wherever they want, on game or off, but those choices have consequences. On weekends, I log on to check the AH before I even shower; it would be way more enjoyable to shower first, but that's a choice I make. Anyone could make it, too.

If they were really a "big time seller", wouldn't they simply be using the same AH tool you're using to screw over your competitor to know that already?

Yep. But like I said, why make it all the easier?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

The 99% is very displeased with the 1%. B[

Someone made that comment about me the other day and it amused me muchly! It's kind of strange to think of myself in the 1%. Please don't occupy my apartment. ; ;

Everyone's entitled to their fun when playing a game, and you have yours this way, but all anyone's saying is that aggressive marketing makes it really hard for the casual people to enjoy the game too.

Yeah, I get that. I wish it could work both ways. :/

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

so we don't have situations where one person is selling the good for whatever price they want--

I don't think we're on the same page here. Maybe I made myself look too good in my original post, or maybe you're not as familiar with the AH (or maybe my markets) as I am.

There is no one item I sell where I don't have competition. I sell many things. On some items, I'm the biggest seller. In no cases do I have no competition. Heck, I don't think it'd be fun if I had none! What would the point be?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I would disagree with that since popular glyphs everyone needs sell sometimes over 100g a piece.

Oh, hmm, interesting. I got out of the glyph market a long time ago, but that's interesting to know. I wonder if the gem market recovered, too?

(And no, this isn't the sound of me plotting entering new markets. :P I'm just curious, I really enjoy learning about this stuff. )

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

So it's really not much of an "opportunity" for anyone. You're not MAKING opportunities.

Are you saying I should be helping other sellers get a foothold in the AH?

Bluntly, it just looks like you didn't want anyone to know what piece of RP gear you were screwing them on.

I'm not screwing anyone. Am I holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to buy from the AH? No. Hello, doing research. If I see someone in a spiffy RP item, I don't run to the AH and buy it. I google it. A couple seconds tells me if it's a drop or comes from a vendor. If people aren't willing to put a little effort in, then they'll pay the AH price.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Someone who you know damn well is not a big seller or an actual threat to you.

Huh? She's been in my market for months. Yes, she seems to mostly just dabble, but she's a repeated seller in the things I make money on. Small sellers become big sellers. How are you judging her threat value?

And boasting about how if you got into other markets that are running with reasonable competition, they'd have to change how they do business or they'd all be ruined.

That was not a boast.