Thank you, little Miss Undercutter (WoW)

[thistlechaser]

Undercut me once, okay, happens.
Undercut me repeatedly, I'll peer your way, but it happens.
Undercut me repeatedly across multiple items, and it's war.

There's a small time seller who dabbles in my markets. Harmless to let her sell a few of my items? No, not really. Big sellers aren't born that way, everyone starts out small. "Hey, this stuff sells, I make money! I should sell more!" New sellers need to be stomped soundly out.

So this one person who keeps undercutting me. I looked her up on one of the AH websites, found everything else she's selling, and I'm in the process of making those items. See, my army of level 85s has a purpose.

While looking that up, something at the top of the page caught my eye. One of the "hot" items listed. A Tabard of the Lightbringer. 90K. Hmm.

While I have no real use for it, I grabbed it. I could put it on my AH mule. I might just hold onto it. If we get more slots per server and I can finally have a paladin, it might be better on that. Of course, they'll only get more common as time goes on, too.

I know it's silly to buy an expensive thing that I don't really, really want, but I try to let myself do that if the mood strikes me. I have the money. What's the use of just sitting on it? I might as well spend it if there's something rare for sale.

Oh, and the Crimson Deathcharger that was sold for 42K (sob!) and someone is now trying to flip for 150K? Welcome to the world of my rooster, baby. I'm sorry you've had to relist it so many times. Hopefully one day someone like me will come along and buy it for that price. *hugs Thistle's horse so much* I swear, that horse makes me so happy. :D

Sometimes I really, really love playing the AH.

Edit: Any deleted comments were deleted by the people who wrote them. I do not delete comments (other than spam).

Comments

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

Thistle is like AH Bruce Banner.

Generally? Really nice, unassuming. Someone moves in on markets? Becomes a golden unstoppable death machine.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I do feel a little bad about being "mean", but it's necessary. You hold your markets or you lose them.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

A Game of Action Houses?

Clearly s member of the Chaser house. A Chaser always pays his debts.

[firebyrd.livejournal.com]

There will never be many Tabards of the Lightbringer around. The only time they become available is the first time someone with the legendary Shadowmourne kills the LK. And usually someone who is putting that together is going to keep the stuff or has friends that helped to give them to. Basically, it's a rare item and will always remain rare, because Shadowmourne is never going to be easy to get.

Sigh...probably time to help a friend of mine put together another ICC group, though, if I ever want the mount she's thinking of giving me when she finishes.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Hm, good point. I knew the conditions of getting it, but didn't think about the rest. And this time? WRA being a sucky server for raiding works better for me.

The deathcharger? Good luck! It's such a wonderful mount (ignoring the bug that makes it into a damned rocking horse). I almost, almost like the coloring better than the original, too. The red is really nicely eye catching.

And while I'm embarrassed to admit this, the attention I get for it is nice, too. A few times a week people ask me where it came from or how a hunter could be riding a DK mount.

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

There's a bug that turns the deathcharger into a rocking horse? I so want to see that.

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

There are AH websites? =O

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yep! Google for Undermine, that's a good one. Not as good as FFXI AH site had been, but best WoW has.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

If you want to make money, yep! And, in the case of me, have fun at the same time.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

This might get long, I like talking about this stuff.

Are you trying to prevent someone else from using the auction house competitively?

Yes and no. If they're a one-time seller, just moving items they skilled up on, that's fine, they'll likely sell just fine. If they're someone who wants to stay in the market and make the same things on a regular basis? That's where my issue comes in.

Only X number of Y items will sell a day. Say, only 5 Bright Pink Shirts sell a day. If I get undercut and don't relist my stuff, I'll get less (or none) of those 5 sales. It's not a matter of taking it personally (though that is an aspect of the fun: MY market, MY sales), it's that there is a very limited number of sales and I'm not willing to give some up.

Anyone who is a serious seller will be doing the same thing to me -- undercutting me as soon as I relist stuff.

The challenging part of AH PvP is time. I'm at an amazing disadvantage since I work full time (and of course won't bot). There was a seller fighting for my markets for a year and a half. He/she didn't work (they may have been a college student, their online schedule was odd). This person knew my schedule (which isn't hard, as I work a regular job). The moment I logged off to go to work, they undercut me. The moment I went back to work after lunch, undercut. They knew my bedtime and undercut me as soon as I logged for the night. It pissed me off, but that's how the game is played.

Especially since you're already exorbitantly rich.

It's not about the money really, I already have more than anyone could need. I enjoy doing this. Some people like fighting dragons, they learn which fires to get out of, which side to stand on, how to move... I track other sellers. I look for new things to sell. I watch market trends. I look at upcoming notes on MoP and plot what raw materials to stockpile (which I'm already doing, getting ready for the next expansion).

It comes down to this is fun, in the same way I used to find PvP fun and I suppose people find PvE fun. It's something I do, a skill I have/have learned. The "dollar figure" I have at the end of the day is secondary (though a nice way to watch if I'm successful or not).

Does that make sense or do I still sound crazy? :)

[gconnor.livejournal.com]

Usually when I'm undercutting someone, I'm not even aware of who it is. My AH add-on scans the current prices and then prices mine right below. It's configurable but the default is to undercut.

I think you are already ahead of the game if you watch auctions after they have been placed and sometimes remove and re-list. That's way more time commitment than I have chosen to apply :) Pretty much I list everything I'm going to list on Friday night or Saturday early-afternoon and then I don't even pay attention until clearing out my mailbox when preparing for the next weekend (because I usually don't log on that alt but once a week)

Do you have any way of knowing how much better-off you are gold-wise than you would be if you spent one-fifth of the active AH time and attention you currently do? It sounds like you DO enjoy the time spent on the AH so gold not the only concern. If you find something both fun and rewarding, bonus! But like any activity, I get most of my enjoyment during the first hour and the second hour may not be as enjoyable.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Usually when I'm undercutting someone, I'm not even aware of who it is.

Same. I have to make an effort to know who is uncercutting me, so if I know a seller's name, it's for a reason.

That's way more time commitment than I have chosen to apply :)

Yep! This is the part of the game where I choose to apply my online time (the time I don't spend RPing, anyway). The majority of people just list, come back when they're returned, then relist as needed.

Do you have any way of knowing how much better-off you are gold-wise than you would be if you spent one-fifth of the active AH time and attention you currently do?

Not personally, but other big time sellers have tested it, and they've found that it's not that much different.

There are some folks (like sellers in the glyph market on my server and on Moon Guard) who "play nice" -- they just list things once, don't relist as they're undercut. If EVERY seller in a market does that, it works out for them. But if you introduce a me into their market? Then they'd all have to change or get out.

It sounds like you DO enjoy the time spent on the AH so gold not the only concern.

That's exactly it. This is fun for me. I enjoy camping the AH watching for cheap mats, relisting things as they're undercut. I have no idea why I find that fun, but I do.

[redtangents.livejournal.com]

Hon, I really wouldn't bother with someone undercutting you. You've got plenty of gold, so it's really not like you /need/ anymore. I'm supporting a brand new guild, and feel a bit guilty charging the prices I do, but we need gold in the gbank for repairs and I buy up materials to turn into flasks and fish feasts. Not to mention making sure we have gems and enchantments for when people get gear.

I still wouldn't go apeshit on someone cutting into my market. :/ Then again I may not be quite as aggressive on the AH. I need breaks occasionally.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

You've got plenty of gold, so it's really not like you /need/ anymore.

Yeah, agreed, it's just the fun of it now. I'm almost (but not quite) looking for things to spend it on, so I get low and have to work hard to make more.

[fealubryne.livejournal.com]

I really shouldn't even be doing this, I know better than to respond to stuff simply because I'm riled by it, but I'm doing it anyway. I'm gonna put my completely unsolicited two cents in! Here goes.

What a stupid thing to get uptight about.

WoW is a game. Nobody is forced to play it. If there's something about it that you don't like, suck it up or leave. Simple as that. The fact that there is a player-run economy (for the most part - Blizz does tweak it from time to time) is by design. From a player's perspective yes, it might get annoying at times. Yes, it might get inconvenient. From a designer's perspective it's an obvious thing to put in an MMO.

As you said, Thistle, you have people who enjoy PvPing on various levels. Some people do it for fun, other people get into it hardcore and are so eager for that kill, or that flag cap, or whatever, that they will use any means to accomplish it. Even if that means thrashing everyone in sight, all the time, under all circumstances. Does this make them a bad person? No. It's how they play the game. You have people who enjoy raiding. Some people get so into it that they will use any means to secure themselves new gear, they'll put up with other raiders they hate, they will defend their raid position in any way they can, often in "mean" ways. This is how they play the game. Some people enjoy collecting mounts, or mini-pets, or gear. Some people play the AH. There are always levels of this, it's the facet of the game that people find that keeps them playing, and it's all by design.

When a PvPer hits gladiator and has all the very best PvP gear, does that mean they should never go hit the BGs because they'll dominate all the other people in lesser gear? When a PvEer finishes their tier set, does that mean they shouldn't raid anymore because they'll make other people look bad? When someone who plays the AH and, through their own time and effort, makes a lot of money does that mean they should just sit back and twiddle their thumbs? If these people have come as far as they have, and do it for their enjoyment, why on earth should they suddenly just drop everything and quit? To give others a turn? Others can have their turn when they work equally hard. That's why it's satisfying. No, the people who have reached "the top" or close to it may not need to keep going, but if they're still enjoying themselves why should they stop? The game is still as much for their enjoyment as it is for anyone else's.

And people complaining about the techniques being used need to wake up and smell the coffee. Guess what. There's a lot of people playing the game, which means it's a lot like the real world. People will do things that might be unfair, but that's the beauty of the situation - it's a game. If an aspect of it is no longer fun for you, find something else to do or quit. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, and if you don't like how other people enjoy themselves then go play a single-player game where your economy can be run however you like it.

/endrant

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

First off, I appreciate you typing all that up! I know typing time is a challenge right now, and doing it one-handed sucks. (Insert typing one handed joke here.)

The rest... yeah. There are so many ways to deal with not liking the prices on the AH, it boggles me a bit that people would get angry.

When a PvPer hits gladiator and has all the very best PvP gear, does that mean they should never go hit the BGs because they'll dominate all the other people in lesser gear? When a PvEer finishes their tier set, does that mean they shouldn't raid anymore because they'll make other people look bad?

That's the way I'm seeing it, too. If someone puts the work into it (and yes, AH PvP IS work), then they get the benefit of it. If you aren't willing to put the work in (because you put your time elsewhere, because it's not your thing, because you have some moral disagreement with it), well then you deal with not having the benefits of it.

And I feel horrible for having a shorter comment reply than your original one. :P

[redtangents.livejournal.com]

You know what? You're right.

I apologize, thistle_chaser. In no way do I think you are a terrible person. We disagree on some things, but you don't deserve to be ganged up on.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

Agree 100%.

I think the Gladiator example hits the nail on the head. People do things differently and obviously the ones who excel to the highest levels enter a different world of competition. It's not their duty to placate those on the lower tiers. They worked hard to get up to their level and have the market power/gold/gear/kills/whatever to show for it.

It's the idea that everyone should be able to get to that top level with minimal effort that's really been bugging me in WoW since the end of Wrath. Although I'm sure there are people who feel the same way and could trace it back to like BC or beyond.

[priestpluswolf.livejournal.com]

The only AH thing I vulture is potions of illusion. 8| ..and that, not particularly steadily. Steady income would be enchants, if I ever stopped being lazy about acquiring greens.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I gave up enchanting on my alt with it. It required way too much work.

[bricriu.livejournal.com]

Ah, I routinely get 80g/potion for that particular one, which always makes me laugh since it only lasts for two minutes.

Between those and growth pots, I don't need to make anything challenging on my alchemist to rake in the gold.

On my chanter/tailors & scribe, I'll buy cheap and sell high and, guess what? If it pisses someone off, they don't have to buy from me. Nothing on the AH is required to level, quest, run dungeons or enjoy the game; at best it provides an extra boost, but it's unnecessary.
My warrior was unglyphed for quite some time because I wasn't willing to pay WrA glyph prices and kept forgetting to ask people I knew to make them for me, and it didn't make me any less able to enjoy leveling/dungeon running.

I don't even care if people buy my stuff just to re-list it higher, because I still got the amount of gold I wanted for it anyway.

- That guy who will cheerfully price gouge the lot of you all the way to the Orgrimmar and Stormwind banks.

[shannonrita.livejournal.com]

It always baffles me when people bitch and moan about the AH. Admittedly, if they're talking about a few things, I know you're the one undercutting them and I just shrug and tell them this:

"If you want, relist the item. If she relists hers, relist yours again. If she undercuts a 3rd time, you undercut next. Either play the game of go away."

It's simple really.

Mind you, when I've noticed you've undercut me on whatever, I need to remember to take my own advice! LMAO

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I just shrug and tell them this

Yep. Or undercut by a lot, and eventually you'll hit the point where the other person refuses to undercut you anymore. You'll lose money, but you'll still "win".

when I've noticed you've undercut me on whatever

Meep, have I? I never see names at all, not unless I actively go looking for them, the addon handles all that for me, I never see the other sellers.