Now I'll like shopping even less. Or: Screw you, environment (RL)

[thistlechaser]

For those not in this area: California is attempting to ban plastic shopping bags. In every town the ban has come up, it has been legally challenged and thus cannot go forward. There's been only one single town that has not challenged it: The town I live in.

6/20 is when the ban begins, less than ten days from now. I went shopping yesterday, thinking I had time left, but they were already out of plastic bags and weren't going to order more.

"So Thistle, use paper bags!"

I did. Right now, until 6/20, they're free. After the 20th they'll be charging for them. You will get no bag of any kind for free when shopping anywhere in my hometown.

SIGH.

By the way, have you used paper bags lately? They suck. S-U-C-K. It's hard to carry more than one or two at once, and worse than that they rip easily. All my groceries ended up all over the sidewalk multiple times.

Not only is there the pain of, you know, not having a bag to hold all the stuff you buy, but there's the fact that I need those plastic bags. I clean the catbox into them. (I also used them for my general garbage, but now I've stopped that. I actually have to save up the plastic bags I have left...)

I'm usually all for the environment, but in this case I have to disagree. Yes, I know they make reusable bags for shopping, but they're dirtier, a pain, and as I said, I use the plastic bags for other things as well.

Grumble...

Comments

[thevressclan.livejournal.com]

My father actually used to work for a grocery store in Florida that didn't give plastic bags out for free. What the store did was put the boxes they didn't need in the front of the store, on the door-side of the registers, and allow customers to use them for free. They were sturdier than paper or plastic and only slightly more inconvenient to load in a car.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oh that's handy, plus you could save them up for when you need to move.

[prettyredeyes.livejournal.com]

Bottom Dollar grocery does that here. It's nice, assuming you have a car. XD When we didn't it was like wrryyyyyyy.

[halogin.livejournal.com]

I use plastic bags for stuff too, but I've gotten used to paying at most grocery stores for the bags, 5 cents a pop. We usually bring our reusable bags, though, and I really love mine. Not sure what kind are offered where you are; I know the Kroger in Tennessee offered kinda chintzy-feeling ones that I didn't like, whereas in the late 90s we had fabric ones from Bi-Lo and a couple of 'healthy food' stores that were sturdy cotton. The ones we have here in Ontario are sturdy plastic that feels kind of 'woven' in a way, with sturdy fabric handles. Easily wiped out if necessary, and they fold up really neatly.

I'm with you on paperbag hate-- those are really the least convenient things ever to carry, when it comes to grocery shopping.

[halogin.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I like that the bags we got from Metro to re-use have two sets of handles-- one short for carrying by hand, and one longer for slinging over the shoulder. Makes things SO much easier. :)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind so much paying five cents per bag (I wouldn't like it, but I'd do it). But ours are just banned outright, no option for buying them. :/

I just bought a set off Amazon, plus I have some I've been given over the past couple years (and a couple from Alaska!). If this ban lasts, I suppose I'll get used to it, but I'm not happy.

[evilgrayson.livejournal.com]

Shopping bags come in 'biodegradable' over here. We've often wondered why TV and Hollywood keep showing us paper bags as Just Better - they aren't, and we know it.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I don't know why we don't have those, too! Plastic bags don't need to last forever, biodegradable would be a perfect solution. Arg.

[loup_noir]

I live in uber lefty land. We've been expected to bring our own bags for years. Overall, I'm fine with that. Gives me a reason to stock up on fun canvas totes. The canvas bags don't do that awful shred thing when you're walking, they hold more, and they fold up nice and flat to sit in your car until they're needed. Plus, all those thin plastic bags are a huge environmental problem. My guy has done a lot of hydrological work on landfills, and the pet name for plastic bags is "jellyfish." The jellyfish go flying through the air to tangle everywhere, including zipping out into the ocean where silly fish think they're food and eat them. Not much fun for the fish.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Hopefully the canvas bags will grow on me. I hadn't thought about them being stronger, that'll be nice...

[peppygrowlithe.livejournal.com]

Why are reusable bags 'dirtier' and 'a pain'? I don't feel that way at all! They hold more items, they're stronger (and better for the environment) than both plastic and paper bags, and the only catch is that you have to remember to bring them along with you. I have one with a wolf and one with a bear, and I think they make shopping more enjoyable! What's more, most of the grocery stores up here even give you five cents off per bag - not really enough to add up even over a long period of time, but enough to give you a small incentive to do what is basically the right thing to do in the first place.

Washington is also getting rid of plastic bags by the end of the year, but I'm completely for it - and I say this as a person who doesn't have a car and has to carry stuff home about half a mile in my hands. I also use plastic bags for the litterbox, but garbage bags and paper bags can still be used for the same purposes.

Betcha you could get a couple cool bags with designs you like on them if you look!

[peppygrowlithe.livejournal.com]

I should probably have looked at the other comments before I posted mine, as this is all basically covered in many fewer words already. X)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oooh, I like your bags! I bought some today, but they're just basic colors.

Why are reusable bags 'dirtier' and 'a pain'?

The local newscasts have been doing stories on the bags. Unless you wash them with bleach every time you use them, they have more germs than plastic bags (and it increases every time you use them without washing it). I'm lazy, I know I won't be washing my bags. :/

I should probably have looked at the other comments before I posted mine, as this is all basically covered in many fewer words already. X)

Ha ha no problem! I'm always happy when you comment. :) <3

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but who wants to wash their shopping bags? :/

I've been trying to figure out if it'd be easier to use my own bags or to go to the next town. I'm strongly leaning towards next town (like you said, it can't be that far!), I just have to google to see the location-options.

Good idea for litter bags!

[isyris.livejournal.com]

Perhaps a silly suggestion, but have you thought about getting one of those -massive- IKEA bags? They're super sturdy (I use one for laundry), and I bet you could fit a lot of groceries in one if you wanted to take everything in one trip.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Actually, I have one already! I was so angry when they wouldn't give me a bag when I shopped there, I vowed to never go back. I spent $500 and they couldn't give me a bag for the little things?!

I've been raging about this issue for years now. Clearly I fail at picking my battles. :P

[gmth.livejournal.com]

I use the reusable canvas bags for about 95% of my stuff, but I would hate not having the option for plastic bags. I always pack the meat in plastic, for example, because the packages leak and I don't want that stuff in my reusable bags. And then I just re-use the plastic bags for the scooping the cat litter or to collect recyclables in.

...which is more than you needed to know, I'm sure, but just trying to say I empathize.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Arg, I didn't even think about meat drippings. D:

I'm really, really hoping people will be so up in arms about this that it will be voted out (I don't think it was ever voted in...).

[senticous-lj.livejournal.com]

I heard about this when I was in San Francico early in the year. I don't remember if the supermarkets over there sell them, but can't you try to buy one of those environment friendly bag things that you can use permanently? I.e. Publix has these over here http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/divas/sites/tampabay.com.blogs.divas/files/images/typepad-legacy-files/45097.shared.publix_2.jpg, not sure if Safeway has something similar.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I have to do. I've bought a couple, but I think I still need more. :/

[laurelwood.livejournal.com]

We're on our sixth month of no plastic bags/no free paper bags, and most of the time, it's not too much of a pain in the ass. IKEA makes some really, REALLY great reusable bags (they're larger than the average ones you see for sale at stores, and they're super durable) and I like that I can make fewer trips from the car hauling stuff in. I haven't yet had a meat drippings sort of spill, or anything dribbling or leaking. I didn't even think of that, but yeah, it definitely could happen. These particular bags I have would be easy to hose down and let drip dry, but I'd be annoyed if I had to do it.

The one thing we haven't managed to do is to get a complete set of reusable bags for both cars- whenever we're in Dennis's truck and stop at the grocery store, we always end up either buying a a paper bag or being total cheapskates and all walking out with a handful of unbagged groceries. :D The other thing I dislike about the reusable bag situation is that grocery store clerks are a lot slower at bagging when they have to use customers' bags- maybe because they aren't all uniform and the checkers can't always see how many the customer has, and so on. My sister and I both noticed that it's really slowed things down, but maybe that will improve as everybody gets more used to it. Oh- IKEA also makes some cute "wad it up into a tiny ball and stuff it into a pocket" nylon bags that are great to carry around in a purse, backpack or even a pocket for, like, mall/clothing store purchases where you'd feel silly walking around with a big reusable grocery bag. (Lots of times the clothing stores only have a "buy a reusable bag for a dollar" option, too- no paper- so having a fold-up-tiny bag is nice for situations like that.)

Whew- sorry for the novel. It's just that we're all still getting used to it, too, so I understand what you're about to go through! (Except for the cat box issue- what a bummer. There really is no substitute in that case for a nice, throwaway cheap plastic bag.)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Whew- sorry for the novel. It's just that we're all still getting used to it, too, so I understand what you're about to go through!

No no, that's perfect! It's good to hear! I hope I get used to it, too. :D Thanks!

Knowing this was coming, I've been saving up and taking extra plastic bags, so hopefully I'll be covered on the catbox issue for a while yet.

[gconnor.livejournal.com]

See, you are one of the more responsible consumers... you actually USE the plastic bags for something instead of tossing them in the trash. Most people save some but can't actually use all of them, so eventually they have to figure out what to do with the 10 bags of plastic bags shoved under the sink.

From listening to people on the radio who seem knowledgeable about the matter, paper is slightly better because if it doesn't get re-used, its a bit more likely to get recycled anyway. Best case would be to buy a reusable grocery bag and use it. But, I think that if you don't use reusable bags, the second-best choice between paper and plastic is "whichever one you will actually re-use".

So in your case you are not just taking plastic bags home and stockpiling them for future deposit into a landfill. You are actually reusing them, which is good. Now for you it just falls into the category of "free stuff I get from shopping at the grocery store". And now, because 90% of everyone else abuses them, without a thought simply because they *are* free, now you are losing access to this free source of plastic bags.

I feel your pain, but honestly, it's probably not the end of the world, really. Maybe you'll end up doing what I do: I buy and use 4-5 reusable bags, and when I forget them, I get paper (San Jose city has banned plastic grocery bags starting several months ago). For the catboxes, I ended up buying small garbage bags. Yes, I don't get them "free" anymore, but for something I really honestly need, I actually don't mind paying the true cost anymore.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

All that makes sense. Hopefully I'll get used to it quickly.

Thanks for the comment!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Sunnyvale. I'm surprised, before this post I hadn't known that other towns were already under the ban.

It sucks because I NEVER remember to bring one of my numerous reusable bags and I heard that they are packed with bacteria...I will never remember to wash them

That's totally me too, along with hating paper bags. Some folks argue that it's not dirty though (see some other comments on this post), so maybe it's okay...

[prettyredeyes.livejournal.com]

We have like.. I don't know.. hundreds of plastic bags under the counter because we never throw them out. I use them around the house for things. Like when there's an icky mess and I want it contained away from the rest of the garbage (cleaning the rat cage, for example). I also line the smaller trash cans in my house (bathroom, bedroom) with them. Which ends up being more sanitary for my trash cans because then all the nastiness is contained.

I am not a big fan of paper bags. This has sort of been ingrained in my mind since childhood because back in the day my mother told me that she knew people who brought bugs home in them. Depends on the store, I suppose, but it always freaked me out.

I try to use the canvas/reusable plastic/whatever bags but 99% of the time I forget to bring them in. Lot of good they do me in the backseat of my car.

We should all mail you some for your litter box needs. XD

[voidmagus.livejournal.com]

Yay rats! I will always miss my pair.

I'm the same way - there's a container in the pantry just for plastic bags. Pet accidents, emptying the catbox, meat drippings, etc. Just to see if ours are biodegradable, I left a bag outside. Apparently direct sunlight and water make quick work - it was layer of dissolved goo in a week, completely gone by two weeks.

Paper bags serve their purpose too. My wife makes the best apple pie I've ever had, and one part of the recipe she insists is absolutely mandatory is that the pie must be sealed in a large paper bag during baking.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

First they came for the plastic bag, and I said nothing since I was not a plastic bag. Ok, it's not that serious but I definitely facepalm over the whole thing. I know we haven't had free plastic bags (I have since the cashiers don't ring up employees on the bags) for a couple years now there is like a 5 cent eco-fee attached to them. But we use them for all sorts of things (cat/dog poop) so it would be really unfortunate if they banned them in my area.

Also yes, paper bags are horrible. I know my work (grocery store) used to put the sturdy boxes up in bins at the front of the store for people to take to carry their stuff in but we stopped doing that for some reason.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

First they came for the plastic bag, and I said nothing since I was not a plastic bag.

Ha ha. :)

Yes, I'd be a little happier if they kept plastic bags, just attached a free puppy fee to them. I have a lot of them stored up, hopefully enough to last me for a good long while.

[kelen.livejournal.com]

I'm actually kind of surprised where I live hasn't done this change in removing plastic bags thing. o.O

That said I've been dealing with the bring your own bags idea for thirty years now. There's a store out here called Aldi that doesn't give away bags. You have to buy them, but they are heavy duty plastic bags that you can reuse a lot. (They are pushing the canvas ones too, and sell some great ones.)

The idea behind Aldi is that everything they sell is second string brands, or if it's a main brand it's factory rejects. (Omg, the can isn't PERFECT!) That kind of thing. So they do everything they can to keep costs down. Fruit isn't great, and I wish there were a good farmers market around here. I'd love to throw money at people instead of CEOs.

Anyway, there's my grocery ramble. ;) You just learn to leave the bags near the front door so you return them to the trunk the next time you go to the car.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Everyone else seems able to get used to this, I suppose I will as well.

Also, I feel behind the times, since based on my comments everyone has been doing this all along!

[teaandfailure.livejournal.com]

My feelings on this are what people have already mentioned; I can buy garbage bags for my garbage can that are made out of corn, and are just as good as plastic, if slightly less durable. (I have to be careful about sharp edges like folded cardboard, which seem to poke through it more easily than they poke through heavy duty plastic).

So if we can make bags out of corn, WHY ARE WE NOT DOING THIS INSTEAD OF BANNING SHIT?

Answer: money.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Exactly. They make biodegradable ones! Why can't we just get them instead of banning them outright? Your answer stands...