"Science? We don't need no steeeenkin' science!"

[thistlechaser]

Link taken from gmth:

Bush says "Condoms don't work to stop the spread of AIDS! And you better teach this or no money for you!" What will be left? Abstinence-only programs! Because hey, we all know that when you tell people not to have sex, it works!

I understand that Bush has no believe in science, but how can anyone denounce the use of condoms? How... how... gods. I'm at a loss for words. How can anyone have their head so far into the sand?

I already have next to no faith in the American public. If Bush isn't defeated (again) in November, I will lose the tiny shred of respect I have left for people as a whole.

Comments

[chichiri.livejournal.com]

How reputable is that paper? I didn't see a name at the bottom of that article. I'm not saying it's not true or anything, but I think I'm going to go look up WHY he did that. o_o but...how can people do stuff that's MORALLY F*CKING WRONG T__T omg

[gmth.livejournal.com]

Here's a link to the proposed guidelines themselves: http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/content_guidelines/default.htm . The article's interpretation of them seems spot on to me.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Good question! But as far as I know (not being from LA, but from near it), it's a real, normal newspaper.

[alessar.livejournal.com]

I'm not trying to bash but ... The Catholic Church's official position is STILL that condoms are an inappropriate form of birth control and preventing AIDS from spreading isn't a good enough reason to endorse them. So the Pope has his head in the sand along with Shrubya.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm not interested in beating my head against a brick wall trying to change the Pope's views -- he has no impact on my life, and I can't help people who willingly put themselves under such rules. But the president of the US? That is (should be) a different story...

Bah.

[metron-ariston.livejournal.com]

Man, when I first read about this (via people on my flist, a source of 90% of my political news lately) it was /just/ after I'd caught Bill Clinton on this morning's repeat of The Daily Show. I was all happy and upbeat and then... *sigh* I swear, I'm becoming politically bipolar.

I only wish that my vote was going to make a real difference this year, as Texas is going to go to Bush no matter what. (I know it's a bad attidude, but the truth.)

Stories like this one (http://www.nydailynews.com/08-08-2004/news/politics/story/220138p-188900c.html) make me feel superficially better because they make me laugh at Dubya... but then logic kicks in and I realize that no matter how funny it is, having a President who says things like "sovereignty is well ... sovereignty, and if you have sovereignty you are sovereign." in response to serious questions (and does it often enough to have frickin' websites and daily calendars devoted to his malapropisms!) /not/ a laughing matter. (Not saying anything new here, I know, just ranting in this comment because I can't be arsed to make an entry myself. *g*)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Heehee! Feel free to rant away! :)

And agreed! When I hear of whatever stupid thing of the day he's said or done, my first reaction is to laugh... then I realize it's not funny at all. *sigh*

What's your icon a picture of? It looks interesting!

[metron-ariston.livejournal.com]

What's your icon a picture of? It looks interesting!

:D I have very little clue how to answer your question without sounding insane or... insane.

It's from Ultimate Fantastic Four, a re-imagining of the original comic series and my current favorite thing in the whole world. I have next to no idea how to describe it without it sounding lame, because everyone is based on their original Fantastic Four selves but are still... different. And they hit every one of my obsesso-buttons. (Guys in the icon are Reed Richards, staggeringly woobie-riffic genius, and Ben Grimm, his unlikely childhood best (and only) friend, a jock who is just adorable and snarky and cranky and I love him foreverandeveramen! Though I love everyone. And would love to go on and on about them. Er, do you have AIM? I that shoving actual issues at people seems to be the best way of pimping. *g*)

Though I could also just say that the first six issues are supposed to be out in a TPB by now, and they're only up to issue nine as it is. So if you ever find yourself in the graphic novel section of a relatively large bookstore you might wish to flip through it.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see! No, that doesn't sound insane at all! Don't comic books sometimes do that? Have an "official AU" sort of thing?

I don't have AIM installed at the moment (need to reinstall it one day...) but thanks for the offer! It does sound cool! :)

sigh!

[elo-sf.livejournal.com]

God please save us from your followers.

:)

Re: sigh!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

*laughs* Amen!

[spenceraloysius.livejournal.com]

I would like to note that the Bush administration forced the CDC to change its websites about two years ago to say that condoms did not stop AIDS, only abstinence stopped AIDS. It is one of the criticisms that the Union of Concerned Scientists made back in February in their multi-page report (http://www.livejournal.com/users/spenceraloysius/163816.html). 20 Nobel Laureates signed the report.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. I can only hope someone will change it back once Bush is gone...

*sigh*

[quasilemur.livejournal.com]

How can anyone have their head so far into the sand?

Much like the wily ostrich, it's only an illusion. However, while the aforementioned avian lays its head out along the ground, the just as flightless but significantly slower Bush wedges his firmly inside his sigmoid colon.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

If Bush wasn't flightless, I might like him better.

Probably not though.

[wanderingscribe.livejournal.com]

To be absolutely honest, I'm not a religious person in the slightest. I believe in God, Heaven, and Hell and that's about it. But hearing this sort of utter *crap* makes me say "God bless the poor souls moronic enough to waste a vote on a man who wants to kill us all."

I didn't vote the asshat in, but I'll certainly vote for him to be kicked out. Ignorant asshole; why does he think the South has so many more teen pregnancies than the North? A piece of paper with the best intentions won't stop someone if they didn't know better in the first place. >_<

Gah!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Exactly. And that's a perfect icon for this, too!

[wanderingscribe.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Friend of mine made it for me and well, the Hyuga Clan says it all. ^_^

[mooders.livejournal.com]

The main thing is, Abstinence says don't have sex till your married... but what about after you're married? What if you want to get married but not have kids? Then what?

>.<;;

atleast I know where to buy cheap condoms ;)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Exactly. People should have options. Have sex, don't have sex. Have kids, don't have kids. It should be the decision of the people having the sex (or not having the sex) which route to use, the government should keep its nose out of it.

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

Uhm? How is that a political thing? They've been teaching that in schools since way before Bush (Jr or Sr) said anything about it. o.O Condoms are NOT 100% pure protection against diseases or pregnancy, it says so right on the box. Go to the corner store and read one if you don't believe me...

It -is- true that the absolute only way to prevent diseases completely is to not have sex, and then once you do, only with one partner (married or no, you're only safe if you stay with ONE person you know isn't infected, and they do the same). Sleeping around puts you at risk, with or without condoms, even though they do greatly lower the risk. It's still there. ^_~

It'd be so much nicer for some of us if you wouldn't shoot off half-cocked about some things that have been around as scientific fact since the creation of condoms.

Besides, what's so terrible about not having sex? o.O Is it like some social crime to be a virgin now?

[evilgrayson.livejournal.com]

Back when I was interested in the facts and figures last, condoms where 99.9% effective where properly used. This was, what, thirteen years ago. The technology and materials for making them have improved since then. They aren't perfect, but if your partner in marriage has an affair or didn't abstain completely before you, well, that throws that one out of the window as well.

Don't get me wrong, I don't thing there's anything wrong with not having sex. Not having sex is indeed the only way to truly guarantee that you won't catch anything, including pregnancy. But people have sex before marriage, kids are maturing and having sex earlier, and pretending that they don't and aren't is sticking your head in the sand. It happens. It happens a lot. It's human nature, and I'd far rather they took steps to try and protect themselves than carried on ignorant that those steps are even possible.

Personally I'm rather grateful that my partner had other partners before me. He's a gentle, kind and considerate lover who knows exactly what he's doing and how to control himself, rather than fumbling around in the dark without a clue and hurting us both in the process. Virgins are over-rated. ;)

PS: Yes, I know my country has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in Europe and an escalating rate of STDs in teens. But at least these kids all know that there is protection. Unfortunately, they also know that being a single mother on benefits is a perfectly viable career option *and* a potential way to get out of school early.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

*poke*poke* You need to update your LJ more!

:)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Hi hi!

How is that a political thing? They've been teaching that in schools since way before Bush (Jr or Sr) said anything about it. o.O Condoms are NOT 100% pure protection against diseases or pregnancy, it says so right on the box.

Agreed that they're not 100% effective, but as Evilgrayson said below, they're as close to that as can be.

Sure they used to teach only abstinence in school... but they also used to teach things like the world being flat and black people were made to be slaves and whatever else. The country matured... then suddenly we're being sent backwards again.

It -is- true that the absolute only way to prevent diseases completely is to not have sex, and then once you do, only with one partner

Sure thing, but how many people do this? In a perfect world (or at least in some peoples' opinion of a perfect world) this is how it would be. But in reality, it's not a perfect world. Teens have sex. Is that a good thing? In my opinion, no. But can they be stopped? No. (Thankfully it's not my job to try!) So if teens are going to have sex (or if adults are going to have more than one partner in their lifetime), shouldn't we give them the knowledge on how to keep themselves healthy and non-pregnant?

It'd be so much nicer for some of us if you wouldn't shoot off half-cocked about some things that have been around as scientific fact since the creation of condoms.

?? Buh? Condoms do protect people from AIDS. They do prevent unwanted pregnancies. Are they 100% perfect? Nope. Did I claim they were? Nope. Bullet-proof vests aren't 100% perfect at protecting cops from being shot, but they still wear them.

And one last reply to this point: The focus of my rant was at Bush and at people who want to force their beliefs on others. I am not now, nor have I ever (outside of silly RP) said that everyone must have sex. Or even that everyone should have sex! If you're an adult, you should make this decision (and every other one) based on what makes *you* happy and comfortable. You should have every option open to you: No sex at all, sex with only one partner in your whole life, sex with many partners, up to sex with household items. ;) However, to make the choice, people need *education*. You need to know your options, and the potential cost of those options, before you can decide. Saying "Just don't do it, period" does not work, especially with teens.

Besides, what's so terrible about not having sex? o.O Is it like some social crime to be a virgin now?

See above. As an adult, it should be totally your choice what happens to your body. You are an adult, you can think and decide for yourself. If you wish to have sex or not to have it, it should be your choice, not the government's. If you wish to have an abortion, it's your body, *you* decide. If you wish to get drunk every night, it should be *your* choice.

I don't appreciate being treated like a child. (By the government, not by you.) My body is my own. My life is my own. I should be permitted to make the decisions involving it. As should you. As should everyone. And to make decisions, we need knowledge. We need to be taught. Not blindly follow what one person believes; people need to think and make their own choices.

Is that too much to ask? The right for everyone (you, me, and Joe Blow) to be able to decide what's right for themselves?

[wanderingscribe.livejournal.com]

Here, here! And as a sidenote, a condom in conjunction with the Pill has been touted as one hundred percent effective in preventing pregnancy, when both are used correctly.

How one uses them correctly is determined by what they were taught. ;)

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

Is that too much to ask? The right for everyone (you, me, and Joe Blow) to be able to decide what's right for themselves?

So why not teach the fact that it's okay to not have sex? Teach both sides of the coin. My sister didn't even get taught about putting off sex 'til marriage when she went through the Sex Education system only 6 years after me. To me, raving about how wonderful condoms are should be balanced by the fact you don't have to have sex or indulge in lust rather than self control.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

So why not teach the fact that it's okay to not have sex?

Oh, totally agreed! All options need to be presented to allow people to make an educated decision, not just any one (condoms, unsafe sex, or no sex at all).