Blarg (FFXI, anime, RL)

[thistlechaser]

I'm trying to catch up with my flist. 150 posts read, 150 to go. I figured I'd jump on it now, since after tomorrow things will get hopeless.

FFXI's been okay. Trying to get ready for being away for a week. Mostly failing at that.

Spent the afternoon/evening today farming for a RDM testimony for Ead (a special object you need for a fight to raise your level cap). He got one, so yay! Plus we got a coffer key for Cehra's AF and she got the coffer, so then we went to right Dark Spark again for her AF gloves. I was happy there was something I could help out with, though by the end I was getting highly grumpy due to lack of dinner.

A guy I sort of know was AF hunting at the same time and in the same area as us today. Almost without delay, he started feeling me out to join the LS. It's highly annoying that people think of CTY as just a resource to use to get their [insert hard task here] done. To get help, you not only should give help, you should happily give it often. Be on the LS, be active, jump in and help when it's needed. Be a member, be a friend. People don't see that, they just see us as a big group of helpful people and think "Hey, I could use them for X...". Bah.

Anime: I started watching a new anime series! For the firsr time in, what, a year? So many people have been mentioning Bleach that I finally checked it out, and I'm totally loving it. I've seen about 6 eps, and have the rest downloaded. What a great story! And such fun characters! And no black-and-white, just shades of morals and such.

On the other hand, I'm behind on just about every other series I follow (all three of them!). Naruto, Champloo, and D-whatever D-whatever (the wacky 5 minute long animals-in-the-forest one).

RL: Mother is flying in tomorrow night. Eek eek eek. Still lots left to do to get ready. I'll be totally out of contact for a whole week starting tomorrow night. At the very most, I'll get on for a few minutes a day to check my email, and maybe I'll log onto FFXI long enough to check my auctions and relist stuff. I also probably will show my mother around the game a little, but I'll be turning the LS off the moment I log on. Never know what shocking things you freaks might say. :) But seriously, if you see me on after tomorrow night, my mother will be standing over my shoulder, so be good! (That means no vibrator jokes, loneguardian! :) )

Comments

[kelen.livejournal.com]

Then take the time to get to know us. :) We don't bite. So far however, all I have seen from you is the want to get something from us. You only started wearing the pearl after we said we didn't want to add ins to the AF3 event we didn't know. Then a couple half hearted attempts were made to log into the shell and say hi. However, no attempt was made to hang around.

Now, I could be totally wrong about your true intentions, but what I see tells me other than what you claim here in this post. The last several days have been spent helping people with various things, and yet you are noteably absent for it all.

We've had many people attempt to leech from us, so we get really defensive when we see it happening again. I'm sorry if we come off as aggressive over this. *n.n* Take the time to get to know us and we will take the time to get to know you.

[glaciation.livejournal.com]

Then take the time to get to know us. :) We don't bite.

I actually got bit pretty brutally when I first put the CTY pearl on, so while I would like to believe that's true, I'm feeling a little gunshy. I don't recall you being nasty, which I appreciate!

However, no attempt was made to hang around.

This is a serious question: what the proper "hanging around" on the CTY linkshell? Outside social, family, and personal obligations mean I'm not on every night, and often when I am in the game, it is to answer a request for help from PrincessGuard or spend some time with my sweetie, who has no CTY pearl. When I'm on, it's usually with a plan to do something. Lately, PrincessGuard has kept me busy helping them out: help with RSE, help with Tenshodo fame, cross fingers and cheer as they try a new BCNM. How do I find out what's going on with CTY in advance of it happening, so I can schedule myself for that? I like to spend my precious MMO relaxation time confident I'll be doing things that make me and my friends smile, not waiting around to see what will happen.

It would have been nice to join a CTY run for AF3, but I'm sure I'll find another way to organize AF3 for those of us who need it. We've managed everything else we've been faced with; we'll overcome AF3. For me, AF3 was just an excuse: I'd rather meet people through a shared adventure than just about any other way, because I believe friendships are built on shared experiences. Asking was a good pretext to stop being shy about trying to introduce myself; I promised myself that I'd put on the pearl whatever happened. The nastiness I got once I put the pearl on was the real shocker. Like I said above, I stumbled into making a faux pas, and I do apologize for that.

I'd like to get to know you! You seem nice! I've enjoyed reading your CTY journal when I peek at it.

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

I actually got bit pretty brutally when I first put the CTY pearl on

You got bit by me. Hard. Because I'm tired of the same shit Thistle pointed out in a previous reply: people who only put the pearl on when they need something.

Besides, I didn't bite you on-shell. I kept my mouth shut and let other people talk to you and kept my nose out of it. I bit in /tells, which has nothing to do with the LS, as I didn't go dragging people in to back me up or gang up on you. The only people I warned about my wariness of your intentions and motives were the LS leader and her husband, which I am obliged to do as a responsible, active member of CTY.

I'm a nice person. Really, I am. But I don't put up with people trying to move in and take advantage of my friends, as there are quite a few people on CTY are far too kind and giving of their time than they should be. Given history of your little group of friends using and dropping Thistle, I have every right to be wary of you suddenly piping up on the LS after letting the pearl gather dust for a year or so once AF3s are mentioned that -you- could profit from.

[glaciation.livejournal.com]

You got bit by me. Hard.

I wasn't going to name names, but, yes, it was primarily you. I appreciate you keeping it largely off the LS, but I stress _largely_, because you and Thistle did immediately make me feel like you were attempting to poison the LS against me. It was very junior high school.

I'm a nice person. Really, I am.

I thought you were, made attempts to get to know you, and got stung. In my book, the jury is still out on that. I hope you really are!

Given history of your little group of friends using and dropping Thistle, I have every right to be wary of you suddenly piping up on the LS after letting the pearl gather dust for a year or so once AF3s are mentioned that -you- could profit from.

Ahahahahaha. Heh. Ha. Giggle.

This is Thistle's journal, and there's a key piece of information on the Thistle situation that I still don't know, but from my perspective, helping new-player Thistle out for months hardly counts as using her. PrincessGuard spent many collective evenings enjoying playing with her and helping her through some of the newbie challenges. I'm sorry she's presented extensively assisting her as 'using her.' It's my deepest regret of FFXI that she seems to only remember the break at the end, not the fun times. But I've tried too many times to mend fences, and been rebuffed harshly too many times, to believe there's any chance of making things better.

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

I wasn't talking about the time that she was in your LS and enjoyed it, and I know for a fact she did, as she was reluctant to join CTY at first. I'm talking about the fact you guys dropped her to put one of your friends in her place. That kind of break in loyalty/trust is very hard to repair, despite all good times remembered. You can be the nicest person in the world, and I admit you were very nice to talk with before you started butting in on our LS trying to get a free ride, but given what drove her away from you guys, surely you can understand why at least Thistle and I are skeptical of your motives/loyalty. I know people who others worship and think are utterly awesome and the nicest people in the world, but a few things they've done just soured many toward them. Just like my leaping to defend my 'home' LS has very likely soured you toward me. It's just how things go.

Besides, you calling us a junior high school clique and then now, again, making with the 'junior high school' thing isn't going to win you any friends. Or any help. Don't come on CTY if all you're looking for is a bunch of people to help you and then skitter back off to your own shell. We don't need more two-faced pearl-holders who are kind and sparkly and nice until they get what they want or are confronted over suspicious behavior and a poor history with one of our members and then resort to petty insults and baiting. We have enough of those already.

Of course, you can always blist me. I can't do much if you want to ignore me and hop onshell anyway. I never did put people against you, or try to 'poison' the LS. I made one tiny comment warning about being overly nice, which people promptly ignored, then thought better of it and kept even that to tells with our shellholder, as I should have just done in the first place. I kept my problems with you in /tells as well, and I will continue to do so unless you give me valid reason to do otherwise.

Unfortunately, someone has to be the bitch in this situation. Might as well be me. You've heard my warnings and know where I stand in regards to you. As of right now, expect no help from me. I didn't work as hard as I did to get where I am to help people who try to get a free ride and then insult me when I call them on it. Until the insults started, I was willing to wait and see what you were going to do, as I do recall you being quite nice to chat with over fishing, but I won't deal with your mocking attitude.

[glaciation.livejournal.com]

You may find this a strange reaction to your post, but you rock. This was tremendously honest and refreshing, laid out how I'd offended you and what I'd did wrong, and in general pulled no punches in favor of clear communication! That's totally fabulous!

I apologize for the junior high school comment. I wrote my initial response with my own bitch mode engaged, then went back and cleaned it up because my goal isn't to be insulting. But I shouldn't have left that in, and you're right to call me on it. I am in the wrong, and acknowledge that.

In return, I ask that you cut it out with the 'free ride' comments. You don't know us, but saying anyone in our LS is looking for a free ride is wrong. I'm in a linkshell that has crawled its way to level 58 and rank 6 by itself playing casually a couple of nights a week. We have worked for everything we've earned. R3, R4, R5, R6, AF1-2-coffer keys -- we've done that all ourselves, without outside, higher-level help. If you knew us better, you would understand how totally opposed PrincessGuard is to handouts; when I asked to join Eadwyn's AF3, it was because I felt a WHM and an RDM in for a day of AF3 questing would make it easier for you. I may have misjudged my value, but like hell I want to play this game to be baggage. Screw that.

I'm talking about the fact you guys dropped her to put one of your friends in her place.

I don't actually know what all happened with that. I was out for a weeklong vacation at my grandparents' for a wedding, and came back to find a shitstorm. I think that Thistle misunderstood the duration of the group she was playing in, and never asked for clarification. Seeing a problem coming up, I _think_ another LS member decided to "set her straight" and things broke down from there. It wasn't a good situation.

For my part, I enjoyed chatting with you about fishing and when I asked for advice on what G2 was like (and not help, though I would've been thrilled if you'd offered it). I was sad, though, to see you defriend me almost immediately after that for no reason I could discern, and disappointed that you never waved or initiated conversation with me.

All power to the bitch! ^^

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

*laughs* Wow, I never got complimented on being a blunt bitch before. Thanks, I guess?

Well, it's good to know that you guys are against people wanting handouts. In that regard, I'm certain you can see why your hopping in earned the reaction it did. If you guys were planning something for your members that you could easily handle on your own and suddenly a stranger piped up and said 'hey, me and my friends need that too, let us come!', surely you'd be hesitant to give them that handout without knowing if you'd ever even see them again. That's where we're coming from, and I believe that's where we're going to stay in the matter. AF3s are NOT easy and are horribly time consuming when you have 6, 7, and more people needing them done for all different jobs.

Forgive me if I will not change my stance on helping until I see active participation in LS events though. We do a lot of things, Tuesday night Windy Eco-warrior, CN escort, keyhunts. If you're too busy with reality and your LS though, I highly suggest shouting in Jeuno for help instead of trying to join another group you obviously don't have time to actively contribute to. It gives you a better reputation because there won't be misunderstandings and keeps the inter-LS drama down to a minimum. That's my own personal suggestion.

As for defriending you, I did not. *checks her friends list to make sure* Nope, I see your name there. I just keep myself on /invisible a great deal because I bazaar overnight and it's easier to just leave that status on my character all the time rather than forgetting to and come back in the morning to a flood of tells from people wondering if I'm ignoring them. ;3 That's it. Also, I'm horrible with names. I only really talked to you once and then didn't see you for several months, so... honestly, I forgot. ^^;

[glaciation.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I guess?

Yes, it was a compliment on making your position clear.

Well, it's good to know that you guys are against people wanting handouts. In that regard, I'm certain you can see why your hopping in earned the reaction it did. If you guys were planning something for your members that you could easily handle on your own and suddenly a stranger piped up and said 'hey, me and my friends need that too, let us come!', surely you'd be hesitant to give them that handout without knowing if you'd ever even see them again.

Actually, PrincessGuard makes a point of helping people out when it's no trouble to do so, whether or not we'll hear from them again. We figure that when people ask us for help with something we're doing anyway, it's good to be friendly. So, no, I still don't understand, but I accept it as a cultural difference. It could be a small vs. large linkshell thing.

Forgive me if I will not change my stance on helping until I see active participation in LS events though.

If it's CTY policy that new pearls can't participate in certain events until they've proven themselves, that's cool. Now I know. Hopefully, if I can make time for CTY events, someday I will feel confident enough to ask CTY for help without worrying that I will be perceived as asking for a handout. Thanks for the calendar of scheduled weekly events -- that will be useful.

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

Actually, PrincessGuard makes a point of helping people out when it's no trouble to do so, whether or not we'll hear from them again. We figure that when people ask us for help with something we're doing anyway, it's good to be friendly. So, no, I still don't understand, but I accept it as a cultural difference. It could be a small vs. large linkshell thing.

Yes, that is a small 'vs' large LS difference. We have a lot of members. If we agreed to help -everyone- who asked us who knew a member in some way (and this isn't even counting strangers who poke us for stuff), we would have no time to do things for ourselves. Now, I know that wording can sound kinna selfish, but honestly, we're players too, we need time to just relax, craft, earn gil, what-have-you. We're already really busy and active with random activities that are spur-of-the-moment and never make it to the calendar because people just pipe up and other members agree to help, so our calendar really doesn't show all the activity that goes on. @_@ By the end of a day, I'm ususally worn out, and I spend a LOT of my time on-game.


If it's CTY policy that new pearls can't participate in certain events until they've proven themselves, that's cool.

It's not really 'policy', but as we've grown larger (we used to only be like 10 people @_@), we do realize that we just have to say no. You're not really a 'new pearl' anyway, you've had one for a long long time and never used it. ^^;;; Since the only person you really know is Thistle, I do highly suggest getting to know our members through Eco, Escort, and such. Maybe then you can organize your own AF3 run and invite CTY members to come along. Make friends, friendships will do you a lot more good than leaping in and looking like you just want something for free.

As for AF3s... I know, the whole 'but you guys are already going' argument, but you must realize, each of the AF3 runs we've done for only a handful of people has taken 10-12 hours to do. It's -hard- to herd an alliance of people to the right spots, make sure everyone's done the footwork for their AF, nevermind spending the gil for silent oils and prism powders and possible loss of exp from death (oh god, RDM AF3 is horrible ><). AF3 runs are not something you can just hop in to if no one knows you, plain and simple. It's nothing personal, honest, just the way things are. We're already looking at probably 8-10 hours for the LS members who need it. We don't call them marathons for nothing. @_@

[glaciation.livejournal.com]

Maybe then you can organize your own AF3 run and invite CTY members to come along. Make friends, friendships will do you a lot more good than leaping in and looking like you just want something for free.

I'd love nothing more than that! I hope I can figure out when it's safe to ask without being accused of wanting it done for me. :)

Thanks for taking the time to respond today!

Dropped her?

[isildur.livejournal.com]

Ok, this is old news, but I was in Europe for two weeks, so all things old are new to me.

We didn't 'drop Thistle'. There was a specific plan: we'd like to catch up our PLD (that's me) to the main group. To do that, we need to level up another group to catch him at 30, and then level him, and that group, up to 40. And, along the way, our BLM (that's my wife) is four levels down from the main group, and we can catch her up, too. So the rest of PG is going to level up new jobs, because that's what we do when there's a problem to solve: we solve it ourselves.

Hey, Thistle, we're going to be leveling up some jobs for this plan. Want to join us? We'd appreciate your help, and we like your company, and you can get a bunch of levels in the deal.

So when the group reached the break-point level, it wasn't that we replaced Thistle with one of our friends. The purpose of the group -- to catch me, and my wife, up to the main group -- had been achieved. We talked about this group in no uncertain terms at all times: we called it 'Operation Paladin' in LJ and in LS chat, also.

And really, even if we'd decided (and I'd be raising hell before this happened, because it would destroy my domestic tranquility) to abandon my wife, and let Thistle continue past the end point of the plan -- what would have happened when we caught up to our 'real' jobs? That was already a full group from the beginning of this whole scenario, and we'd always intended this as simply a way to replace a WAR tank with a PLD tank. We preferentially play our main jobs, and tend to only play others as a break from them.

So there was no break in trust and loyalty: there was the completion of a plan whose parameters had been outlined in advance. If Thistle didn't believe this to be the case, there was a miscommunication, but we never indicated that it was anything other than a temporary group. And this wasn't 'one of our friends', it was my wife, who brought us all into FFXI in the first place.

The part that I find most frustrating about this whole saga -- aside from the implication that Thistle has been telling everyone she knows that we're all bad people -- is that my wife tried to mend this rift. We could have just blown the whole situation off and kept playing, but instead we attempted to put together another group to play with Thistle. Her response was an unqualified 'no', followed by explanations as to why we were bad and untrustworthy people.

One could argue that any linkshell or static that has 7 people is destined to fall apart over issues like these. But, in contradiction to that, we decided to put our new group together anyway, and bring in another friend who had recently started playing in the slot we'd hoped Thistle would take. That group is going strong, playing regularly, and is now 40th level.

I feel like we've done what we can, and I'm a little shocked that this venom is still lingering around. Thistle, when I've talked to you in-game, you've seemed friendly and personable; I can only assume that you were basically lying to me, pretending to be friendly, while telling your LS what a terrible person I am.

I encourage you, or anyone else reading this, to put yourself in my shoes, and ask: if the game mechanics require you to make a choice to play, in any given evening, with an acquaintance or your spouse, and both want to play equally, who do you choose? And, as well, if you attempt to compromise and spend one of your weekly static nights playing with the acquaintance, and the acquaintance rebuffs you, how much more responsibility do you have to keep trying to patch things up with the acquaintance?

And seriously, it's not like we're trying to recruit high-level help. Even if we found ourselves needing it, we have other options for that. If Verity was trying to play with CTY, it was because she wanted to get to know CTY better. If we're just looking for uber people to solve our problems, we can find them elsewhere.

Marten

Re: Dropped her?

[chrysoula.livejournal.com]

*cry*

I've always felt a little awkward with Thistle, especially after what she told us when she rejected our advanced-jobs group. She told us, after asking for some time to think about it, that she didn't want to group because she didn't want to level anymore in FFXI, it wasn't what she enjoyed. We made vague plans to get together once a week to do something fun. She peeked in on the day the first week, and then left, and then never really peeked in again. I was confused and bewildered, because we'd had a big fight and then I thought we'd worked things out, in an amiable mutual way. Then, I heard about her dark knight leveling, and I was even more confused and bewildered. I came to the conclusion that Thistle had said something polite to blow us off, despite our attempts for honest and clear communication after the earlier communication fiasco. We just weren't worth her time anymore. And if I was hurt by it? Well, NBD, really-- after all, we'd hurt her in the miscommunication. Eye for an eye, and the balance is righted. Or so I thought, anyhow. It was clear we had different playstyles, anyhow. It was nice she was having fun with a group of friends that had fun the same way she did. And maybe one day we could hook up together and do something... try out that 'Eco' thing, maybe. It'd be fun. It'd be fun. I didn't know how or when, but everytime I saw a CTY member I'd get a little warm glow. 'We know them. They're nice people. They have fun. One day we'll have fun together.' I have no idea how inter-linkshell events were handled but I assumed there was a way. I was hesittant to talk to Thistle much as time passed, because I was uncertain how much weight her smiles and happy words had behind them-- but she had cause to be bitter and it was understandable to also try to be polite! But there was nobody else who knew me. Verity had a CTY linkpearl and knew some CTY members more directly... a pleasant interface seemed inevitable. Right? And then my linkshell-mates, most of whom were much shyer than I, would know them too and things would be nice.

I guess CTY has grown a lot since those little dreams were planted, and now doesn't do cross-linkshell events? And in fact, only welcomes linkshell members in good standing on events? And maintaining good standing requires some minimum time spent playing the game a week, with required social vocalization periods? No more stringent than our own linkshell membership requirements, I suppose: people who knew us before starting FFXI. (It's because some of our members are very shy.)

The miscommunication with Thistle way back when is one of the most regrettable experiences of my life. I wish it hadn't happened. I wish a thousand different ways for it not to have happened. I wish Final Fantasy XI allowed us a way to communicate generally with our shy friends /and/ new friends while shielding them from each other. I wish I could have begged a CTY linkpearl off somebody and spent what little time I have there and with PrincessGuard at the same time. Cool folks, fun times. (They, of course, have all the cool folks and fun times they need already but they're still letting more people in because they're nice folks, too.) I wish, I wish. I wish.

I can understand how frustrating dozens of requests for aid can be, and how a gating mechanism is necessary. It'd be nicer if the gating mechanism at least had different rejection letters for the people trying to ruthlessly unsocially use them, and the people who simply can't meet the minimum LS social requirements, despite being friendly, helpful, social, chatty individuals. S-E made the game a certain way and it isn't anybody else's fault but it impacts the way we all play, from the single-active-LS system to the flat requirement to work in large groups sometimes. It is, ultimately, a shame that the interface between such stupid rules creates such lingering social drama.

[kelen.livejournal.com]

This is a serious question: what the proper "hanging around" on the CTY linkshell? Outside social, family, and personal obligations mean I'm not on every night, and often when I am in the game, it is to answer a request for help from PrincessGuard or spend some time with my sweetie, who has no CTY pearl. When I'm on, it's usually with a plan to do something. Lately, PrincessGuard has kept me busy helping them out: help with RSE, help with Tenshodo fame, cross fingers and cheer as they try a new BCNM. How do I find out what's going on with CTY in advance of it happening, so I can schedule myself for that? I like to spend my precious MMO relaxation time confident I'll be doing things that make me and my friends smile, not waiting around to see what will happen.


...So even though I too have a shitload of things going, my time limits are no consideration when it comes to what you want? I have friends, family, the LS, making gil.. all the things you do. Yet I have time to talk to my LS and invest time in it.

If you aren't willing to make time to get to know people, and help them, then it's not worth it to me to invest any time in you. I haven't barged into your LS and asked you to spend hours helping me. Take the same considerations, please. :)

[glaciation.livejournal.com]

If you aren't willing to make time to get to know people, and help them, then it's not worth it to me to invest any time in you. I haven't barged into your LS and asked you to spend hours helping me. Take the same considerations, please. :)

When did I ask you to spend hours helping me? When I asked if I could join an AF3 quest already being planned?

If you were going to participate in that, weren't you already investing those hours in your LS?

How would me asking to go along take those hours away from you?

Wouldn't I be investing my hours in getting to know you by participating in it? Or is the fact that I'd benefit from going along the problem?

[kelen.livejournal.com]

You have no idea what you are asking for, do you? n.n; AF3 runs take many hours and a lot of effort.

[glaciation.livejournal.com]

What we have here is a clear failure to communicate. If you'd like to answer my questions, I'd be happy to learn from your responses.

[1200seconds.livejournal.com]

This is why something like "alliance chat" in Dark Age of Camelot would be handy, where multiple guilds can have an additional, combined chat channel.

There is a difference between Draque spending time on the CTY pearl and Verity doing so: Verity isn't attempting to join CTY as a regular member. If I remember right, Verity picked up a CTY pearl for the purpose of coordinating combined outings between CTY and PG.

Speaking as Russet, a PrincessGuard member, you can't have my Verity all the time!

I continue to think it would be nice to do things with CTY, so that we can get to know you folks better, and also so that we may help each other out. (If CTY is large enough that PG isn't a useful resource, then I can see how that might look like a one-sided desire.) I am not interested in quitting my own linkshell to join CTY. If that's a condition we must fulfull before even broaching the subject of doing things with your linkshell, then I suppose we just have different cultures, and I'm sorry that we aren't able to work together.

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

No, we don't require people to join CTY to help, but we do require a friendship. None of us but Thistle know you guys, to be blunt. ^^ Like I told Verity, join us in Eco-Warrior, Escorts, keyhuntings, whatever. Stuff people work together with for the benefit of everyone. :3 CTY members will always take priority though, because we're simply too large a shell to help everyone that asks, unfortunately. Organize your own runs, ask CTY people for information if you need it, and I guarentee you that will give you all a better standing in our book. We look for friends, not for people that will benefit us. If we did, all our new members would be 65+ and you might as well call us an HNM LS. 9.9 Which we most certainly are not.

[kelen.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I'd never expect anyone to drop their LS. I'm just asking for more than *pops on shell* "Hi! Bye!" *takes off shell* which is what has been going on. :) Nor do I appreciate being called chiche`ish for expecting a little effort before lending my aid. A couple hours here and there, perhaps going to lend aid on coffer keys or what not, isn't going to hurt anyone.

From what I see it's a lot of excuses, and a little name calling, when we've asked for a little effort before we put in a lot of effort. AF3 runs take hours. The last one took 7 hours straight, and that one a short one. It involves large groups and keeping a horde of cats in line. @.@ It's tiring, stressful, and often annoying... when I too have a load of other things I could have been doing. I'm going on this run solely to help the others in my shell. I won't get anything out of it other than spending gil, time, and headaches. WHy should I expect less from anyone else? :)