The Gospel of Judas

[thistlechaser]

As non-religious as I am, it probably would surprise folks how much I enjoy learning about the history and background of the Bible and such. Happily I caught The Gospel of Judas today -- it was the most interesting religious-ish thing I've seen in a long time.

I had had no idea that there were 30 or more gospels, and that one man picked which four would be in the Bible. (Four because there are four directions and four winds.) I'm sort of surprised that doesn't worry religious folks -- it very much would me. One person getting to pick what the One True Truth you believe?

Also, the various gospels were written 60-80 years after the actual events. Could you imagine a newspaper story written 60-80 years later? How accurate would it be? ursulav (found through a link in juliansinger's journal) worded this idea well (and very amusingly):

In many ways, I've always thought the early gospels resemble Jesus fanfic. You all get one character who was cool, and some canonical events, but how it proceeds after that was up to the individual writer

One of the reasons that The Gospel of Judas appealed so much is that the story just hadn't worked for me as-is. Judas was Jesus' friend, a close and trusted fellow, and he betrayed him why? For some money? "Just because he was evil"? As a story, it makes more sense that either he'd betray for a good reason or that he wouldn't betray at all.

For a long time I liked the way Jesus Christ Superstar handled it (Judas betrayed Jesus to save him), but the Gospel of Judas works even better for me: Judas did it because Jesus ordered him to. (The reason why Jesus would do that is way too long and complex for me to fully explain why here, but basically it was that the body didn't matter.)

Ha ha, come back to the posting window an hour or so later... Need to wrap this up, so I'll end this by saying that it didn't hurt the show at all that their actor for Judas was seriously hot. Sorry for the small screenshots, I couldn't find his name online with a quick search:

One picture.

Two.

Three.

Comments

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Actually (and I have had classes in this) the Gospel of John was written like 120 years after "the birth of Christ".

I'm not sure if I buy the "one man picking the Four Gospels" thing--did they specify who?

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Also-- I'm sort of surprised that doesn't worry religious folks -- it very much would me.

Apparently (in talking to various religious folks over the years), it does bother many people. But many people also just don't /know/ things like that.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

They did, but I couldn't spell (or recall) the name now. Eyu-something or other would be my best guess. There was likely input from other folks, but they don't know/don't agree on who.

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

It doesn't bother me, at least, because the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit through man, so it doesn't matter who wrote it, what's in it is what's supposed to be there, written in the same spirit. And that's also why I don't buy into all these extra books that were just written by man and 'discovered'. They might be accounts, but like you said, it would be like reading newspapers from 2000+ years ago. There's lots of stuff post-Bible that we should be aware of and learn from, yes, I'm totally for that, but things that add to what the Bible already says... Those things I'm very wary about, because they tend to not hold much water.

For example: Jesus telling Judas to get him killed doesn't make any sense when compared in context to when Jesus was begging God to let the burden pass from him, were it possible. That... doesn't line up to me. Why ask someone to turn him in if he didn't want to die? I'd rather believe the Bible. Judas might just have been a jerk. ;3

[theprogenitor.livejournal.com]

It should though - the current books that make up the bible and always will, were made by some council 100's of years after Jesus died.

There were hundreds of Gospels out there and multiple/differing copies of some of them.

Most of them were written a long time after Jesus died and while some of them are attributed to his peers at the time, it is questionable. Life expectency wasn't that great back then and some of those dates are questionable as to actually having been writen by someone that witnessed the events.

The idea of the time was to select the ones they "thought" were the most correct, written by the ture appostles and not forgeries or what not, even though none of them were around at the time to know what actually happened.

The ones not "choosen" were hunted down and eradicated (although there are rumors that the Vatican has warehouses of them in underground catacombs).

Yes, you can try and fall back on the fact that god influnced them, but then you also have to believe that they actually understood what god wanted them to do - they are men afterall.

It wasn't until the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in this century, that the other gospiles and accounts were again available to be discoverd.

-p

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

And yes, men are imperfect. But I would rather follow the God-inspired attempts at truth than purely man-written assumptions based on word-of-mouth. Yes, I'm very well aware that a great deal of the text was written after the events by many, many years, but I don't mind. If prophets can see the future, why can't a man of God see the past? I don't question because I have no reason to. If I'm wrong, that's my problem. :3 What -is- written is a huge source of how to live life right and be content and successful. Details of man's view of history doesn't much concern me, or many other Christians. (And there's the whole 'don't add to or take away from this book' thing... I'm not willing to risk doing something stupid because a handful of guys on TV tell me to.)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

It doesn't bother me, at least, because the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit through man, so it doesn't matter who wrote it, what's in it is what's supposed to be there, written in the same spirit.

Ah! I think I understand how we see it different. To your way of thinking, God's hand (or will or whatever) guided the events and the four books that were meant to be in the Bible ended up in it? It doesn't matter who picked it or how they picked it or why, the right ones would have gotten in there?

For example: Jesus telling Judas to get him killed doesn't make any sense when compared in context to when Jesus was begging God to let the burden pass from him, were it possible. That... doesn't line up to me.

Oh, see, but that lines up perfectly for me, and I love that part. No matter if Jesus knew he had to die (asked Judas to betray him), when it came down to the wire he was weak. It hurt. Like anyone, he'd want the pain to stop. (I don't call him weak as an insult, instead I mean he was weak like any human would be.) That he begged in the end makes him more realistic to me, a more "believable character".

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter who picked it or how they picked it or why, the right ones would have gotten in there?

More or less, yes. :3 And for why I believe it, it's much to do with personal experience. Sometimes I'll just -know- something I couldn't have possibly known. And sometimes talking religion with you, even, I'll say stuff, read it later and be all like.. that came out of ME? :o So... Eh, again, it's a matter of faith. I know people will have problems accepting that, and that's fine, I can't -make- anyone believe, but I can hope it does at least explain just a little bit of what goes on in my head. ;3


No matter if Jesus knew he had to die (asked Judas to betray him), when it came down to the wire he was weak. It hurt. Like anyone, he'd want the pain to stop. (I don't call him weak as an insult, instead I mean he was weak like any human would be.)

All humans have weakness. :3 And like Dad always says, Jesus was all God, -and- all man, so he would indeed have been going through those feelings and just wanting it all to stop. It's not a bad thing to feel that way sometimes, it's how you act on it! But anywho. Hrm. I'm still not sure I go for the whole Jesus asking Judas to betray him, but he did know ahead of time someone would, that much I'll agree with. I can't debate a definate yes or no without researching it myself at this point, aside from expressing my opinion that it doesn't make much sense to me, still. XD That's ok tho, we'll find out the truth someday. :3

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

Judas was Jesus' friend, a close and trusted fellow, and he betrayed him why?

Afterthought: I've been stabbed in the back by someone I considered my closest, most trusted friend in the past. I still don't know why that betrayal happened, or what went through their mind. But it does happen. :3

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's true. Funny thing is that happened to me as well, but I hadn't connected that to this until now. I guess it makes this make more sense though: If we all had a book/gospel, when these folks who betrayed us had theirs found, maybe we'd find the answers as to why. :P There has to be reasons though, people don't just get bored, yawn, and say 'Nothing better to do! Guess I'll turn on my friend for a little entertainment!'. Or at least I hope not!

[webbapettigrew.livejournal.com]

I watched the show last night, too.

While The Gospel of Judas might be considered heretical, it does help me to understand the reasoning behind choosing Judas to be one of Christ's twelve disciples. If Jesus is all-knowing, why would he place Judas in his closest circle of friends, knowing he'd one day betray Him?

Someone was going to have to lead the Romans to him so that he could complete his mission on earth.

I also thought it interesting that the place where Judas killed himself is now a garbage dump and in Germany, you can't name your kid Judas.

Interesting...

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

If Jesus is all-knowing, why would he place Judas in his closest circle of friends, knowing he'd one day betray Him?

I always wondered that, too.

I also thought it interesting that the place where Judas killed himself is now a garbage dump and in Germany, you can't name your kid Judas.

Yes! I was amazed at the German part. (But even without the law, could you imagine running into someone named Judas?) But maybe now that'll change. I was happy to hear that they were considering making him a saint, too. If his gospel is correct, he more than deserves it.

[suzu-beaver.livejournal.com]

I wish I could have seen that. I only learned of the Gospel of Judas in the newspaper, and it didn't have the hot pics either.

From what I've read, a lot of it sounds like Gnosticism. I'd previously read about the Cathars of Languedoc (a kind of Gnostics, I think) via a fictional story, and the beliefs from the Gospel of Judas run parallel to theirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism was very confusing, but the links at the bottom were easier to understand.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

From what I've read, a lot of it sounds like Gnosticism.

As I understood it, that's exactly what it was. Per the show, Gnostics wrote every gospel, and Judas' was the most Gnostic-ish. Jesus's body wasn't the important part, it needed to be gone so his spirit (the important part) could be freed to become even better. (I didn't want to include this in the original post because I wasn't sure I was understanding it correctly.)

I wish I could have seen that. I only learned of the Gospel of Judas in the newspaper, and it didn't have the hot pics either.

It'll be coming out on DVD! Check the National Geographic site for the date and info and such. There's even a preview which shows lots of hot guys. (That's another thing I liked about the show -- nearly everyone in it was so darned hot!)

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

The Gnostics did not write every Gospel. (Like, they didn't write three of the four Gospels in the accepted Bible, for example.) They did write a LOT of them, and they influenced the Gospel of John a LOT, though.

Someday, I will stop nitpicking.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oops! Sorry, I misunderstood then.

Someday, I will stop nitpicking.

No no! I'd rather know the correct information. :)

[epyonmk3.livejournal.com]

Jesus knew Judas would betray him. That's precisely why he was one of the disciples. Jesus had to die to atone for the sin of the human race. Judas took his place in the prophecy, as was foretold.

God has already seen this movie. He knows what will happen, yet that doesn't stop him cheering the good guys on.

I haven't heard much about the Gospel of Judas, but nothing from what I have heard contradicts the other gospels, or indeed the rest of the Bible one bit.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I haven't heard much about the Gospel of Judas, but nothing from what I have heard contradicts the other gospels, or indeed the rest of the Bible one bit.

Other than one bit: The other gospels potrayed Judas as betraying Jesus for bad reasons. The earliest gospels made him the least evil, and the latest ones made him out to be the most evil (doing it for money, doing it because he was "just bad", etc). Other than that, it mostly follows the same "storyline" as the other ones.

God has already seen this movie. He knows what will happen, yet that doesn't stop him cheering the good guys on.

Heehee. :)

[kalin-nestar.livejournal.com]

Jesus fanfic LOL

You know, my mother and father were into reading the other books of the Bible. I think they were called the Dead Sea Scrolls...But then that his a child's memory. It could be a little mixed up.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

There actually is fanfic slash written on the Bible. I've read a story or two. It's... odd. :P

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Dead Sea Scrolls were found near the, er, Dead Sea, in 1947 and later. (They are hypothesized to have come from an Essene Jewish splinter sect somewhat after the time of Jesus-- Essenes were the guys who wandered around being ascetic and stuff.)

There's a bunch of different finds around that time. The bunch found in Nag Hammadi, in Egypt, in 1945, were a slightly different group of texts, primarily Gnostic in origin.

[who-meh.livejournal.com]

I wish I had been able to see it. As far as the reason why Jesus asked Judas to betray him is simple in my mind. Jesus knew he had to die, so he asked one of his closest friends to do it. I say this based on a simple premise that Jesus knew he couldn't run, nor would it really accomplish anything. Think how big he became after he died, just like all those artists that have works of art skyrocket in value after they die. Plus he knew his death would mean the salvation of everyone. If you like movies check out Donnie Darko and you can see the connection in a modern sci-fi twist.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

It'll be out on DVD soon, so if you can't catch it on TV, you'll be able to rent it. :)

. Think how big he became after he died, just like all those artists that have works of art skyrocket in value after they die.

Exactly, yep.