Long time, no post (FFXI)

[thistlechaser]

My chick grew to an adult and has an odd sized beak, and people wanted to see screenshots so I figured I'd edit the backlog of screenshots and post them.

The better to dig with, m'dear. I didn't have a good picture of his father's head, so I used the best I had. Big difference between normal bird and big-beaked one. His stats keep going up. I think he's average in dis and the step below in rec. Something like that.

The one thing I really did enjoy in the last couple days was watching the CSs for the new ToA missions. It's like they took everything about god-awful CoP and did exactly the opposite. While I didn't enjoy having to sneak/invisible to get that one CS (especially since I had no map), even the easiest part of CoP was still harder than it. And the scenes were so pretty! (SPOILER for text in that screenshot.) I love the details, the music, the characters, and how darned long the CSs were. We'll have to do the BC sometime so we can see the rest of them. (Supposedly the BC is easy, don't even need a whole party.)

Got this year's Halloween hat. Doesn't look as good on me as it does on some characters, but I like it.

We went skilling for ~7 hours today. As you can see, I needed to skill because BRDs are so darned bad with swords (ow!).

And in "A year ago today" news, our CoP static was in Promy-V. (Ha ha, that old font is so hard to read.) I miss working with the people from the static, but I really wish I could find the people who designed CoP and stab them in the eye.

I think I'm getting sick, and I have to go back to work tomorrow. Very much not ready to deal with that.

Comments

An essay reply to a sentence...

[gbeans.livejournal.com]

As I see it, TAU was created for those who enjoy instant gratification. Pretty much *none* of the new armor is outstanding on its own merits. I've argued time and again that most of it is AF stats stolen from other jobs and rebranded for lvl72s *cough*padawinbody*cough*. A lot of it fills niches because people don't have gil/connections/inclination to get the more expensive version of the armor (see: SH vs. the Jaridah Peti). People could skip +5ACC if the armor was 1/20th the cost of the +10 version. None, not a single one, of the mission battles has presented a real challenge yet, or even required retrying 'cause we failed. Much the same can be said for Assault. I think the most we've had to do a mission over is twice.

Having said all that, it's great for the casual player who doesn't want to put that much effort into the game play. They want quick solutions, easy to get armor (that isn't the best, but close is good enough), and to get on with their life. The story is humorous, though not very thought provoking. Of course, as the casual player is discovering, you usually can't just stroll into Whitegate and pick some random people off the street and do Assault. You still have to plan something; a time to meet and which Assault you're doing. And, oh damn, that's starting to look like the type of effort planning a mission might involve...

I'm not sure how to say this without seeming like I'm flaming you ('cause I'm not, this is growing into a pet peeve frustration of mine and I have to let it out @.@) but you're angry at CoP because it required you to *work* for your progress. A person couldn't finish the update missions in a single night because the missions were too hard for that usually, and there were cutscenes all over the world to get. On a scale of 1 to 10 for difficulty, so far TAU has been about a 1 maybe a 1.5, while CoP was at least an 8 the first time I went through it. (All the repeat trips and nerfing of the missions like Promy have reduced it down to a 5 for me. Keep in mind that when I did the first 3 Promys there were twice as many mobs per island, Recollections dropped at a rate of 1 every 2-3 *hours*, and the portal only remained open for 30 seconds between islands.)

It's great that you're satisfied poking TAU stuff every once in a while at your leisure. For myself, I'm bored. I could munch through the content in a night and then get to spend the next 2 months helping others get through it. Yay? Thanks for tossing the bone to the players, SE, but where's the meat? I want some mission fights that are actually hard and more than one or two per update. I want some rewards that aren't "High level gear from another expansion ver 1.5". Those new pants are a GREAT example of that. Haste+3% and STR+3. Wow. If you did Zilart and went to sky and killed Byakko a couple times you could have Haste+4% (Byakko Haidate) and STR+5, Acc+7 (Shura Haidate). How about something new? Would that kill them? I could really go for some MNK pants that have Att+20 on them, SE, if you're listening!

It's not even a matter of "They're getting gear to players who couldn't get it otherwise." 'Cause, y'know, the players I see getting the gear are just as motivated to go in groups of 3 as they are in groups of 18 to get things done.

And again, it wouldn't kill them to do something that's unique -.- I think the most unique weapon/armor out of the expansion so far has been the All Jobs reuseable throwing weapons. DRGs and MNKs around the world rejoiced at getting something at lvl70 they should've had access to at lvl7. Way to go, SE.

I don't think SE will ever introduce another piece of armor for melee that is like Kirin's Osode or Black Belt or Ridell, nothing will match the Zilart rewards, but c'mon -.- At least CoP had its' unique treasures at the end like Rajas Ring and the Safehold teleport ring. A near-end-of-story-type treasure from CoP became a quest reward in TAU, that made me laugh... Will TAU have something like that at the end? At the moment I have my doubts. And even if it does, I have my doubts that my safe/storage/locker will have room for it after all the other rare/ex half pieces that have been tossed at us.

Re: An essay reply to a sentence... part 2

[gbeans.livejournal.com]

Another way to look at it:
* Any Nation mission line can be done in a week or less.
* Zilart can be completed in a weekend, from start to finish.
* Thus far TAU would take about 3 days to complete if I'm remembering how many "Japanese Midnight" delays there are.
* The quickest I've ran through CoP from Chapter 5 to complete, but not including the after CoP/Zilart content is 2 weeks. If you wanted to do Chapter 1 through 8.4 and worked on it every weekend and evening, I'm guessing it would take a month.

Don't hate CoP because it had the gall to actually be lengthy and require effort to complete. You stopped right on the edge of where the story starts to get really good. (And CoP does have a great story, it's my favorite mission story by far.) You stopped because you got intimidated by what would be required of you to continue on. You should look at the example Sylf's group is setting of tackling each mission head on rather than pussy foot about how it might be too hard / time / gil consuming. Meds costs have come down *considerably* since TAU came out. Don't be afraid to challenge yourself.

B'sides, watching you lash out at CoP as often as you do when you haven't even gotten to the difficult parts yet is kinda ^^;;; You don't have much room to speak yet :} And you've certainly enjoyed the benefits of CoP whether you'd grudgingly acknowledge it or not.

The CoP designers should be commended for creating an expansion with as much depth as it has without just creating a new part of the map and doing it from the ground up. The roots of the story integrate well with previous laid story threads that you can find all over the place. CoP was wonderful for giving us new armor that was unique. I remember all too well what a hodgepodge my RNG armor was before Noct came out. And you'd be hard pressed to find a pre-AF WHM, SMN, or BLM not clinging to their Seer's tunic. And let's hear it for the Eisen-gear. Tanks finally get something else to wear b'sides Chainmail and Centurion. Hell, even the highbie stuff was unique. Good examples are Yinyang Robe and Archer's Jupon. How about those Rostum Pumps or Reverend Mail (more of a toy, but there's nothing else like it)? Brutal Earring is pretty darn nice for any melee to have. If they'd made the TAU Crit%+ throwing weapon active in all zones instead of a latent active in a handful of areas you'd have your winning piece of armor right there. I'd say TAU has given us more *stuff*, but CoP has given us more *quality*. I prefer the quality. The stuff is great for filling my cramped safe. It'll get tossed when I no longer have room to play around with it anymore.

Re: An essay reply to a sentence... part 2

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

As I see it, TAU was created for those who enjoy instant gratification.

Going to disagree with you there. It's for people who don't want to have to go through hell and high water for a game. It's hardly instant gratification, and I've put the amount of work I'm comfortable putting into missions into it. (Sneaking and invisibling through a zone you have no map for is annoying. It made my heart race and my hands shake. Anything that gets a RL physical reaction like that from me is over the "work" line in my book.)

FFXI is supposed to be a game. It's supposed to be fun. Some people found CoP fun, the vast majority (if one listens to various message boards and LJ) do not find it so. Glad you did.

Having said all that, it's great for the casual player ... and to get on with their life.

As opposed to putting tons of planning time in and many tries/dying to get it right? For me, that is not a game. It is not fun. It is work. The fact that I do not want to do something work-level annoying (not to mention, multiple deaths which would require me to XP to make up the losses -- also annoying) in a game does not make me lazy (as most of your comment implied). It is, I feel, one of the few smart decisions I've made in my FFXI time. Usually I just keep ramming my head against things I don't enjoy doing until I get them done, and come out stressed, unhappy, and ready to quit in the end.

You stopped right on the edge of where the story starts to get really good.

I don't care how good the story is, for me personally it is not worth it. And I'm hardly alone.

You stopped because you got intimidated by what would be required of you to continue on.

No. My CoP static broke up. And you think things like Assaults are hard to do with randoms? And no, I'm not going to organize a LS group. See the point above.

B'sides, watching you lash out at CoP as often as you do when you haven't even gotten to the difficult parts yet is kinda ^^;;;

I don't have to be murdered in my sleep to know being murdered is something I would not enjoy. I have ears. I listen to the experiences of other people doing this.

So it seems to come down to player-type. You have CoP and dislike ToA, I have ToA and dislike CoP. Thank god they're both not CoP-level stuff, and I suppose you can be thankful that CoP wasn't like this.

However, don't be angry because people don't like what you like. People differ. I can happily sit and craft for 14 hours straight, while you've said that makes you crazy. Some people can XP for 24 hours without sleeping (*cough*Mada*cough*), while that would make me /wrists. I hate CoP, and if by some chance I fall into another CoP static and actually finish it, I'm sure I'll still hate it.

Re: An essay reply to a sentence... part 2

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I should explain my "I'm sure I'll still hate it" line. For me, the worst thing in the game is dying. It means I failed. Having to re-make the XP aside (yay Besieged, making that easier now), it's the thing I most try to avoid. That parts of CoP basically require death (not to mention the tons of it you'll find elsewhere in it) means that I've already got a built-in hate level for it. If CoP were as easy as nothing but watching CSs, yet every X CSs you randomly died, I would still hate it. CoP being more than that, plus yay lots of death!, means the hate level is even higher.

Re: An essay reply to a sentence... part 2

[lokyst.livejournal.com]

I'd have to say that attitudes like this are a large part of why I quit. This entire post is just one big e-peen wagging "I got through and you didn't, so you suck". Just because it's not about armor doesn't make it less of an e-peen wag.

Glad you liked CoP. Now let the rest of us enjoy an expansion without judging us by our preferences.

Re: An essay reply to a sentence... part 2

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

Just adding my $.02 here... I don't think you looking down at people who didn't complete CoP is the best thing in the world to do. All it does is piss people off, and hurt those that don't get angry. So we didn't complete CoP. I'm sorry that makes us less worthy in your eyes. I won't physically stress myself out over a game. If you want to, that's fine and dandy. But don't go preaching at us how ToAU sucks and CoP rocks and if we don't like CoP we aren't as good as you. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but it could have been limited to a simple 'I liked CoP, I wish more people did, too' instead of saying we're lazy and want instant gratification, which you know isn't true. You know all of us better than that, Beanie. v_v

[pomr.livejournal.com]

Sounds like your chick is not destined for the BBQ pit! Huzzah. :)

Glad you're enjoying the ToA stuff so much, and that hat is kick butt. :) Does it ahve any good stats? Or is it kind of silly, mostly decorative? If so--wow...very decorative indeed. :)

I can't really say much about CoP, but even the little bit I did seemed like far more work than payoff. And the stories of people spending millions of gil on single missions were enough to make me cringe. Personally I think you should do what you enjoy, and leave it at that. Games are meant to be fun after all, right? ^____^

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Sounds like your chick is not destined for the BBQ pit! Huzzah. :)

Other than when he tuned out yellow (and, eh, male) I haven't wanted to kill him at all! If only he were female I'd breed him to his father right now and start over, hoping for a color.

and that hat is kick butt. :) Does it ahve any good stats?

Something like +3% HP or MP. Not sure what the HP vs MP is based on. Some people say job, some say level. I haven't tested it at all, I just like how it looks. :)

I can't really say much about CoP, but even the little bit I did seemed like far more work than payoff. ... Games are meant to be fun after all, right? ^____^

Couldn't agree more! :)

[loneguardian.livejournal.com]

*reminds* NorthernWind is growing up today, she's black and has Average Discernment and Receptivity :E

[pomr.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that challenge isn't important, I like a challenge as much as the next person. But...lets say you're playing D&D, and you're a 5th level fighter and just had to fight your way through a swamp full of trolls, to get to an ogre mage stronghold and end up fighting for weeks of game time, months real life, and after all that you win, and your reward is 10 GP and a +1 sword. u_U;;;;;

Of course...it would be just as unsatisfying to get a Staff of the Magi, a Vorpal Katana of Wounding, and half a million gold...I think that the 'ideal' difficulty would be somewhere between the CoP/ToAU poles. :)

And...my analogy probably means nothing to you, you're not a D&D goober like I am. Oy.

[kerai.livejournal.com]

The hat stuff is level D; I think even is MP and odd is HP or something... a lot of people were complaining about how that doesn't help at 75, which is silly because it's an event item.

[gbeans.livejournal.com]

The millions of gil part has gotten considerably better with TAU. TAU deflated most medicines, thus going back and catching things that were prohibitively expensive before isn't that way now. (Just look at how Thistle's power leveled through finishing Leather. Pre-TAU it was unrealistically expensive, now it's manageable. Just time progressing changed the situation entirely.)

[kerai.livejournal.com]

Unholy mutant chocobo! *sign of the cross*

I loved CoP's storyline, but I hated the missions dearly. My favorite part of it is Bahamut, and I can't stand walking to actually get there. I think it was worth the effort I put into it, but I can see where the complaints come from.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Unholy mutant chocobo! *sign of the cross*

Just in time for Halloween~!

I think it was worth the effort I put into it, but I can see where the complaints come from.

Good to hear! :)

[genomeffxi.livejournal.com]

Holy, Gbean that was a loong reply, and in two parts o.O (btw haidate is 5% haste =P)

I agree with gbean that being able to go through the new content in a single day is not a good thing. I also really liked the challenges of CoP, I think maybe the really annoying thing was that you needed to have and organize a group, and deal with all the problems of maybe being really excited and motivated, and having maybe some people in the PT/static that didn't care as much or weren't punctual, reliable, wouldn't try to pre-flag or put effort clearing hate or whatever.

I think that's the biggest problem and probably where the difference of opinions between you two (thistle and gbean) comes from, CoP battles were great, but the frustrations from trying to get through it with maybe not as coordinated or skilled or motivated group would suck (even being on different schedules could be a huge problem). And if someone is left behind, that can also cause huge disappointments, drama, etc.

Without those, things would be just good fun to be had anytime, I still have tons of fun repeating the mammet BC as solo 75 (as quest), but sometimes when I get even 1 extra mage to come along it can cause drama or frustration (if they get agro and die on the way, don't have RR up, or don't cure in the BC when I was playing differently relying on that, or even have people lie and be pushy while essentially leeching a win..)

That's one of the tradeoffs that exist in the game, and luckily they both are present, some things you can solo with skill, some are just easy and pretty, some you HAVE to do with people AND have everyone be sharp..
Games aren't just supposed to be fun, in some games the challenge is part of the fun, like riddles etc.
Working together with other people with everyone showing impressive skills can be very good and even more fun than just casually strolling together through something that is too weak to be challenging but just looks pretty.
But that only works if everyone in the group likes challenges and really is skilled and is in a good mood even when things happen to go bad, and learn from their mistakes and improves.

And about gear, some items are valuable just mostly because they are hard to get and rare and require maybe skill (and unfortunately luck) to get, if the bastok armor and weapon NPC shops just gave everyone black belts and osodes and haidates for 10 gil, they would just stop being so special, plus people who put so much effort getting them would be reasonably disturbed by it.

So in summary
-I agree CoP was great and fun for the challenge, but coordinating or dragging along people sucked and was not part of the fun.
-ToAU is way too easy and short, but at least it's still pretty and fun in my opinion so i'm happy about it.
-The new gear is mostly inferior because it's easy to get, but that's the way it should be (if you want good gear, do Zilar and CoP. If they gave great gear away, people who already earned theirs the hard way would feel cheated).

[lokyst.livejournal.com]

ToAU is way too easy and short

I don't get why you say it's short, was this the last of the missions?

[gbeans.livejournal.com]

If you do all of the current TAU missions, including the forced Japanese Midnight time delays, it would take 3 days to complete. That's not long. If you take out the forced time delays it could be done in a day with less than a full party of people. The hardest of the fights is the ship one so far and that could be handled by 3-4 people of they had good strategy/chemistry/right_jobs(tm). That's short. Since SE's stated outline for update progression is every other month, we have to wait 2 months to even get another bite of story. I don't want to wait 2 months to have Naja menacing me. It took a lot of time, even playing straight through once everything was released, to work through the depth of Prishe's personality and story.

[shakes head] I don't hate TAU because it does fill an important niche. I do reserve the right to be disappointed with it after CoP, but I knew that'd be hard to top. CoP was a 7-course meal of story and challenges. TAU is like theatre popcorn by comparison. It fills you up while you're there, but the moment you leave you find you're hungry again.

[gbeans.livejournal.com]

Sylf's group that I mentioned has 2 Europeans in it, a couple people with odd working schedules, and a full time student. It's the very definition of odd schedule. It's also the definition of "zomg ur not teh rite job lolololol" They did Ouryu with 3x DRG, 1x NIN, 1x WHM, 1x BLM. Wow! I hold them up as an accomplishment of defeating something even when others say you couldn't. CoP isn't impossible even if you don't throw SMN, RNG, BLM, and NIN at it. My group did 6.4 with a PLD tank, it took a lot of tries, but we did do it. I remember when I did it I was told we'd never defeat the pots 'cause we didn't have 2x BLM. Since then I've done it with some very nutty job combinations.

I feel bad that some members of our shell are hesitant about continuing on with CoP because so much hate and scorn has been brought upon it by posts like this. People *do* listen to you, Thistle, and they won't budge 'cause you'd scorn them if they did. Would you scorn them if they left you behind and continued on?

And as I replied to Niala, they're buying this Assault gear that they could earn and not spend gil on it. That makes me a sad bean... Especially when some of it would just be 3 Assaults -.-a Maybe they have more gil to toss around than I do, but I need every freebie I can get...

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I feel bad that some members of our shell are hesitant about continuing on with CoP because so much hate and scorn has been brought upon it by posts like this. People *do* listen to you, Thistle, and they won't budge 'cause you'd scorn them if they did.

Ummm, what? Are you saying that you think I'll go 'Ha ha you suck!' if anyone continue with CoP? My dislike of CoP is my opinion. Mine. As I've commented to you earlier today: If you like it, so be it. Not everyone likes the same things (believe it or not!). If people want to do CoP, they can go for it.

Would you scorn them if they left you behind and continued on?

Of course not, and I cannot even wrap my head around you suggesting that I would.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

*pushes you two together* You and Beanie are the two people I keep trying to get to talk to each other. She'd probably like to read all the MNK number crunching you do!

CoP battles were great, but the frustrations from trying to get through it with maybe not as coordinated or skilled or motivated group would suck (even being on different schedules could be a huge problem).

Not exactly. What I like in the game is different than many (most?) people. I can have a grand old time sitting in town and crafting the whole day. I strongly, strongly, strongly dislike things like having to sneak/invisible through aggro and dying. Unfortunately CoP missions have a lot of that stuff! I can happily sit in Sandy and craft whatever, I don't need Sea access for that!

I would semi (tiny little bit) like to finish it, just to have it finished, but that is in no way, shape, or form enough of a want for me to go through the trouble of doing it.

It's sort of like how I'd love to have someone cook and clean for me all the time, but I won't go through the bother of marrying some guy just to get someone to do it for me. ;)

I personally don't think ToA is too easy or short, but that's my opinion. :) I know I'm different than most people, and I'm fine with that!

[southern-hell.livejournal.com]

I saw 64 comments on this entry and I was like whoa what happened>.>

Even though Beanie maybe isn't saying it the right way I think they just want you and the rest of your CoP static to enjoy the game, and CoP really was an awesome expansion. The people who spent so much extra gil and energy on CoP were doing it with pick up people and not giving it their attention, none of it is really hard as much as it is time consuming and you shouldn't discount it for any other reason than that. I was pretty mad at having to wipe and reraise in the pots BC because of my setup, but most of it isn't that bad at all; aside from a few times where we had to sleep tp, possibly some yagudo drinks, and echo drops/rr pins I don't recall any need for bought medicine. I do agree that it's sad if you don't like CoP because you think the BCs will cause too much death and things, and I know how hard it can be to put and keep together a party for it, but as long as you aren't bothered by the time it takes to do it you might consider to think of it less harshly :) If you still think it isn't worth the time regardless, if you have any close friends who finished CoP maybe they will let you use their character to read the cutscenes. It would take a while to run around and find them all but the story is really awesome and I think you'd enjoy it~

It took me less than 30 min in total to see all the newly added CSes in this recent ToA patch, and we did the BC with 4 ppl, then that was it. Combined with the previous updates, and especially compared to the amount of CoP CSes it's really a dissapointing amount of story. Imo atm it's less involving and creative than the fellowship NPC story line.. more like some easy quests than a true expansion mission line. That still has time to change though, and hopefully it changes for the better. It doesn't have to have 37894764 challenging BCs, but I personally like the involving stories from RoZ and CoP and I hope ToA lives up to them.
If you really don't like sneak/invsing around that much you are going to hate running to Navukgo Execution Chamber for the BC too lol ;;

[lokyst.livejournal.com]

Even though Beanie maybe isn't saying it the right way I think they just want you and the rest of your CoP static to enjoy the game
In case you missed this, we are enjoying the game. On our terms, which happen to not involve doing CoP missions. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be good enough for Beanie, who is now embarrassed by those of us who are still second class privates or whatever the rank is.

none of it is really hard as much as it is time consuming
And there's the rub. CoP and FFXI in general are timesinks. Saying something in FFXI is time consuming is like saying water is wet.

Some background: I was finishing up a degree and wanted to spend more time in WoW with my partner who had pretty much lost interest in FFXI. As far as I am aware the others were under similar time constraints and/or states of boredom. Why else did 4 members of the static pretty take a break from FFXI for at least a month round about then. We were burned out. In no small part due to farming/preparing/fretting/planning/constant pressure to complete the CoP missions, for which beyond the prommies and mammets, (thank you, Beans) we did not ask help from Beanie beyond asking for advice.

Now me and my partner are back on a very casual basis and we don't want to get burned out on the game again, and since CoP contributed so much to that burnout I'm not touching it. I can't speak for the others in the static, but the general impression seems to be that they *don't want* to do it. For me in particular the prospect of repeated failures is a definite turn off since I don't play regularly enough to regain the experience or gil.

As for the super storyline, considering the amount of effort I had to expend to see the story so far, I can't say I feel it's worth it to continue. It could be as you say that it is the shiznit at the end, but if I am not willing to undertake it, because up till now the story has been fairly weak then the blame doesn't rest entirely with me. When it reaches that point then at least some of it is the director's fault and that is why I think that the CoP storyline isn't as great as everyone makes it out to be.

It took me less than 30 min in total to see all the newly added CSes in this recent ToA patch

Stop hitting enter so fast, it took me a good 1hr. ;)

*shrug* From the number of updates, ToAU is at the point before Ultima / Omega were released, which everyone who likes CoP tells me is too soon to start judging CoP. I also have a feeling that the storyline of ToAU is roughly at the mammet stage of CoP despite the number of updates. We have only just been introduced to the main characters, and we're still getting a feel for the personalities, and there is a sense of there is more going on than meets the eye. Sounds like mammet stage right?

Basically, I think that Square is trying a more gradual approach with this story instead of the thrown into the fray approach. I'm sure you "hardcore" people will get your epic revelations and fight scenes, but at least this time so many people won't be locked out from the get-go.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I saw 64 comments on this entry and I was like whoa what happened>.>

Up to 72 or so now. c.c Whenever people complain about not getting comments on their posts, I'm going to point them to this one and tell them to be careful what they wish for! :P

[zerozephr.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think your chocobo might need some rhinoplasty. Does he get picked on at Chocobo school?

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

If so, maybe he's in love with one of the bullies, because now he's lovesick. >