CoP experienced people: Opinions? (FFXI)

[thistlechaser]

Two questions!

1) We've waltzed through the Three Paths. No deaths (other than planned in mithra BC). Nearly no meds used. Every time one of the battles ended, /party flooded with "That's it?", "Too easy.", "Wait, it's over?" and comments like that. Based on those three being a cakewalk, does it seem like the airship battle shouldn't be too bad for us? Or impossible to guess?

2) Party set-up for airship battle. This is the bigger question of the two. These are the jobs we're thinking (and other potential 60 jobs).

NIN (WAR? 60?)
WHM (SMN)
MNK (WHM)
DRK (SCH)
RDM (PLD)
BRD (COR, RDM, WHM, DRK, BLU)

It's me (the last one) who is my big question. LS opinion is split between BRD (and the NIN wears those evasion earrings activated by songs) or BLU. Personally I'd be leaning towards BLU -- head butt is on a 10 second timer, potential stun every 10 seconds has to be better than anything else? Though I've always underestimated the power of a BRD... (Plus to me it sounds like our lineup is short on DD, though people have said no.) But I'm so focused on BLU right now I could be not seeing this fairly.

So: Which job for me?
[Poll #1334434]

Feel free to leave comments, too!

Comments

[kamalloy.livejournal.com]

Don't COR rolls also activate the latent on Melody Earrings? If so, I'd say that's something to consider. It gives you more DD, particularly for the first round with the Mammets when you're going to have people soloing them at first. Plus your 2hr can be really helpful - we had 300TP trigger on ours and that was nothing to take for granted at the end of the Ultima fight!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Hm, yeah, I'm pretty sure rolls do activate them... That's something to think about too then!

[kamalloy.livejournal.com]

Of your list, I would go with Des as NIN, Dani as MNK, Naya as WHM, Renard's as RDM, Tharpy as DRK, and you as COR. All you melee folks should probably go /NIN - I did, and it really helped. Make sure Naya's on top of erasing the various status effects on Des, and Renard's on top of dispelling the weapons' buffs. (Fun fact: we had no RDM when we did this, but we DRGs armed ourselves with Dispel Couses.)

We had the most trouble with the first-round Mammets. Failed five times. Came back for the next attempt and made it through everything. Bring lots of meds. Bring Icarus Wings. Don't be afraid to wipe once and get back up. Don't be afraid to pull crazy last-minute heroics if you're close. Don't aggro the Omega Weapon. ;p

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you have the lineup we intend, with me being the only questionable one...

Yeah, we always bring as many meds as we can carry. And eeek, I can't wait to be done with this. :D I'm already so nervous and it's a whole week away.

[tacrozar.livejournal.com]

COR rolls do activate the latent on melody rings.

Re: point 1
SE has decreased the difficulties of the BC fights. I'm not sure by how much though. The 4-2 Ouryuu fight was still hectic manaburning it.

Re: point 2
Tank class: Load up on hp. There are two schools of thought. I personally think using NIN with evasion build is probably the best. Have the NIN aggro but NOT claim the monsters. That way healers can just heal bomb. The DDs then just go to work picking off monsters. You'll need NIN because 2 DD in the


You'll definitely need a RDM and WHM. Or RDM+SCH? or SCH+WHM? I don't know what is the best setup now for this.

DD: I'm not sure if COR is good. You can try it out. Heavy DD is definitely needed. They'll need to have the ability to tank as well.

I would highly suggest BRD or COR for sure. The attack buffs is just too good to be ignored.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the thoughts!

[almontffxi.livejournal.com]

Supertanking the Mammets made that part of the Airship BC really easy back when I went through it. Our NIN threw on his eva setup, agged them to start and then we pulled 'em off one by one and ripped through them. We had...at that point... err, I want to say WAR, SAM DRK in this fight for the DD portion? I can't remember for sure. What I do remember clearly was that NIN + BRD made U/O into whiff machines (at least as far as the NIN was concerned), so I voted BRD for you.

In theory, you guys could also blow through these possibly if you came as DRK or COR but that would miss the opportunity to buff your tank / slow the mob. Then again, I am not that familiar with COR's abilities, so there may be something similar you could do there.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

COR can't slow the mob, but our RDM could (unless the magic version of slow doesn't tend to stick?). Me going as DRK tempts me, since it's such an easy roll to play.

I guess worse comes to worst, we try one party set-up and if we fail then we try something different the next week!

[iniadelphinae.livejournal.com]

U/O is one of those battles you either breeze through or... not.

It is absolutely my least favorite part of CoP since it took 9 tries and I don't even know how many deaths to beat it, well before it was nerfed and when the polymers were like 1 mil each because the mats were harder to get and you lost exp every time you died. Snoll was a piece of cake by comparison for me. Obviously, YMMV.

Really, I don't know what to tell you since I haven't done a CoP battle since The Great Nerf. Wait, might have done Mino, but that's not a BC. I think my brain has an automatic repressing block about remembering CoP mission fights.

Only thing I can say is make sure you have Erase. The last mob uses Slow and Elegy, which send NIN and PLD timers all to hell. There was no BLU when I did CoP, so don't know what to tell you there. I do know constant Stun is not necessary, and I'm not sure it would particularly helpful for doing anything but messing up hate, which is really, really important for this battle.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Luckily we have a WHM, so she'll be able to keep the NIN erased.

I do know constant Stun is not necessary, and I'm not sure it would particularly helpful for doing anything but messing up hate, which is really, really important for this battle.

That sounds like a really good point. I'll probably do our first attempt as BRD (or COR) and see how it goes...

[binarybeer.livejournal.com]

I'd keep the WHM and RDM and have yourself go as BLU. 4 DD would really help out in that fight. Bring Ehters and Yags and spam the bologny out of your spells including Headbutt.

We had 4 dd and had trouble with the timer, but that was before the nerf. COR or BRD may be better considering the length of the fight and the accumalitive worth of their songs/rolls.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Generally I'm not pro-nerfs, but in this case? YAY.

Yeah, the extra DD is very tempting...

[vegetaa.livejournal.com]

I'd say 4 DDs as well. Mammets are faster that way, which will give you some spare time (and allow your PT to wipe once np).

I didn't do this fight post-nerf, but did it quite a few times before, and my best advice would be to bring in a good tank, an offensive party (4 DDs...) and some of that item that prevents O/U to use their TP moves for a few seconds...damn I can't remember the name >< But it's worth it :)

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Luckily our group has two good tanks! And CBC... um... CBC something or other are the items you're thinking of. CBC Polymer?

[vegetaa.livejournal.com]

Yes, CCB Polymer, that's the item. It prevents mobs from using their TP moves, which is usefull to zerg the last 20-30%.

Having a good tank doesn't make or break this fight, but since O/U can pretty much one shot DDs (at least they could before the nerf) with a TP move, you prefer having the hate stuck on a tank, so your DDs live and the mobs die before you time out :) Good luck !

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

BLU. Hands down. Any additional evasion you can put on a NIN doesn't mean crap because there is still the chance they will get hit anyways. Stunning an attack means there is a 100% chance they won't get hit because...well, the attack was stunned.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's a good point... plus the extra DD...

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

I'm really hesitant to actually say to go with that group setup. If you do want to go with that setup, I'd agree with "Go with BLU." There's another setup I'd use with those choices, but that wasn't the question so I won't say it. =p

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oh, feel free to toss out other ideas! Hopefully we won't need it, but options are always good!

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

My opinion of party setup, looking at those job options, would go:

WAR
WHM
MNK
DRK
PLD
RDM

Your original setup might work out fine, but I believe it would rely on you going BLU. I've never been a big fan of NIN tanks for this fight.

With PLD tank, (s)he'd supertank the Mammets in first form and the WAR can tank singles at a time. Have WHM concentrate on PLD and RDM concentrate on the DDs. After the Mammets, it's pretty simple. Keep elegy/slow off of the tank, but that's with NIN tank too.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

The tank option is an interesting one. We've had people tell us that NIN tanks suck/PLD is the only way to go on this, and the exact opposite.

Rrrr. Oh well, guess we'll see how it goes from there and adjust as needed!

[piratewiccy.livejournal.com]

sometimes, oldies are still goodies. My group went in as:
BLM/RDM
BLM/RDM
RDM/WHM
NIN/WAR
WHM/BLM

It has been awhile since I have played, and have no clue if they have nerfed anyone lately or not, but this worked pretty well for us.
BLM used AM while NIN kited and voked. RDM hasted, refreshed, enfeebled and dispelled. WHM, well, we all know what they did, kept us alive lol. At very end, RDM CS Nuked, BLM ES Nuked, and WHM used 2hr at VERY last sec. Was over and done with fast as hell lol.
Either way you go, good luck and have fun! ^^

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a good lineup! Unfortunately we have no one with BLM to 60. :P

Thanks, we'll try! :D

[quistie.livejournal.com]

I didn't vote. If I did I might have voted for Bard. I'm a mage at heart, though, so I might be biased.

To answer the first question, there is really no comparison between One to Be Feared (the airship battle) and Three Paths. If anything, One to Be Feared is similar to ToAU 44. Both of them have a 45-minute time limit, both of them have three stages, and both of them are pretty challenging. The pacing is a bit better for One to Be Feared, actually. The mammet part really isn't too bad, but Omega/Ultima is another matter entirely. Unless you screw up in a major way, you're going to spend at least 30 minutes in that battle, win or lose. ToAU 44, on the other hand, is pretty hard all the way.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

there is really no comparison between One to Be Feared (the airship battle) and Three Paths

Drat! I keep hoping someone will say "No worries, Thistle! It's easy as pie! You'll do great!" ;)

Rrrr, I never wish for a weekend to go quickly, but I want Monday to come so we can try doing this...

[2515049.livejournal.com]

WHM is really essential for Erase. Dual WHM is unlikely to be necessary. The first time I won, we had:
NIN NIN BRD WHM RDM DD
and went 1/1.
Since I was in an insane static (8 people), we ended up needing to win once or twice more to get the others through. Each time, we had NIN/BRD/WHM/RDM and filled out from there.

People always swore by the combination of March + Elegy to give the NIN(s) an edge on keeping shadows up.

Now, more recently, I helped as WHM, and we had a COR and I don't think we had a BRD. COR accomplished similar usefulness, keeping MP up on people, and slowing the weapons. (I imagine slow + elegy may be similar in potency to slow + earth shot.)

This team also went 1/1.

So, I think COR or BRD are best for you, and that either is fine.

Now, if Stun from Head Butt truly is reliable enough, you can likely do quite well with it and preclude the need for a support job, but I'd expect there to be more MP issues. Yagudo Drinks are no better than Refresh (arguably). Pro-ethers are wonderful, though, as are the two tiers of vile elixirs. Since you *can* make up for lack of MP refresh rolls/songs, it's probably not terrible to miss them. I'm just not certain that Head Butt compares to the buffs/debuffs COR/BRD offer. Mostly because I haven't done CoP with BLUs much. (I can say that DRK40/BLU20 was awesome in Diabolos, though.)

Also, because you can "supertank" mammets, I would push you away from any DD job. Mammets are not your problem, and if you optimize for U/O and wipe on mammets, you haven't lost any EXP or valuable items. You shouldn't need to use any medicine/pumps on mammets, so wiping on them is the better third of the fight to do so.

Oh, as one other slight thing against BLU. BLU stands within melee/AOE range. COR and BRD will be less likely to need healing from AOEs.

Regardless, good luck. I don't mind being disagreed with or argued against, but I figure an extra opinion is useful.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

The first time I won, we had:
NIN NIN BRD WHM RDM DD
and went 1/1.

Oh wow, that was enough DD power? Good, I'll be less worried with our setup then. (We have a MNK and DRK for sure.)

but I figure an extra opinion is useful.

For sure! Thanks!