Like Yelp for prostitutes

[thistlechaser]

A few days back hamburger posted a link to a site that lets guys leave reviews on female prostitutes. (Do I even need to give a NWS warning on that?) I've been unable to stop reading it. It's so very, very odd. Not sexy by a long shot, pretty much the opposite of sexy. I'm certain there's a heaping helping of dishonesty in the reviews too (otherwise England has nothing but the most beautiful, wonderful, sexy women as prostitutes, most of them not only getting off on what they do, but eager to love each and every one of her customers.)

I have zero issues with prostitution (it's your body, do with it as you will), so that's not why this site strikes me as so odd. I think it's because there's so much of what the site calls "GFE" -- a girlfriend experience. So many of the reviews make it sound like the girl actually likes the guy, wants to kiss him, loves blowing him, and enjoys the sex as much as he does. These guys really seem to believe it. It's the woman's job to make the guy think that (and maybe a few really do like it), but it ... bothers(?) me that the guys fall for it and buy it.

Yeah, yeah, you could say "men are stupid", "men think with their dicks", any of those type things, but this just seems so obvious: The women are doing a job, they're doing it for the money. If they really are ultra hot sexy women, would they love Joe Blow walking in off the street, Joe who sees prostitutes on a regular basis?

Maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe I'm being too judgmental. This is just so strange. I guess I'm uncomfortable for the men? It's strange that I can't even put my finger on why this bothers me ('bothers' isn't even the right word). It's interesting though, a look at a life I know little about. I wish I could get a 100% honest version of the site.

Comments

[avocado-love.livejournal.com]

This site... there is something addictive about it. Wow. I don't know which is funnier; the extremely detailed good reviews (which read like an article in playboy/playgirl) or the hilarious negative reviews.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I like the negative ones, I read those first. "She was doing it just for the money." NO WAY.

[avocado-love.livejournal.com]

Hahaha. I alternate between the good and bad ones, but there was one review where the guy was like, "I went down on her and she really enjoyed it!"

And I was like... o_O I think you're doing it wrong.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

A bunch of them are like that! I hadn't thought that was something men would pay for... So many of them mention a "BJ and then I returned the favor on her". It's just wacky.

[aelice.livejournal.com]

It's scary, what if they have oral herpes and pass it on :(

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

With the number of mentions of bareback, herpes wouldn't be my biggest concern. D:

[peppygrowlithe.livejournal.com]

Women can do with their bodies what they want, and men can do with their minds and imaginations what they want. The bottom line is, however deluded he may be, the man got what he wanted, the woman got what she wanted, and nobody got hurt.

It's similar to when you run into people who ideologically or politically disagree with you (you wrote, years ago, about feeling frustrated by people sitting in their cars, nodding in agreement to conservative talk show hosts. That stuck with me) - they're wrong! Why can't you just shake them and make them see that they're wrong! Wake up and stop lying to yourself! But in this case, their actions won't affect you as it would through, say, voting (you could make the argument it leads to female oppression, but I don't think you believe that), and some of the 'deluded' men are probably quite nice and intelligent fellows. Half of them probably don't believe it to be true, but I don't need to see a prostitute to get that it just plain feels better when you think she's actually into you. And isn't that what the act is all about?

[peppygrowlithe.livejournal.com]

Wow, some of these are pretty interesting.

She is ever so polite and I can safely say this is the best woman i have ever met.

Sorry mom, there's a new girl in town!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

There are lots of interesting ones, for many reasons! A few of them mentioning having tea beforehand while going over paperwork. I wonder what kind of paperwork there could be!

[sailor-arashi.livejournal.com]

She's actually a CPA. The prostitution is just a side job.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Ha! Get your taxes done AND get a "date"!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, for sure. If the man knew the truth ('the truth' being my version of it, who knows if I'm right), it would be a much less enjoyable experience for him.

In a way it sort of reminds me of Disney. I went to Disney World soon after the Lion King movie came out, and I went to a character dinner. I was SO disappointed, the people were clearly just in a character costume. (Rafiki was made of this grey fur fabric that I had seen in stores before!) I have no idea what I had expected, but if I could have believed they were somehow real, it would have been a 100% better experience. Instead it was empty and emotionless, which I suppose would be the same as one might feel if they didn't think the girl was into them.

(you wrote, years ago, about feeling frustrated by people sitting in their cars, nodding in agreement to conservative talk show hosts. That stuck with me)

It's funny you remember that! I don't. :D My opinion on it has also shifted slightly. I don't think people nodding along are "wrong" so much anymore, just that the ideas are bad and I wish people didn't buy into them.

(you could make the argument it leads to female oppression, but I don't think you believe that)

I know a lot of people believe that, enough people do that I often question my acceptance of people being able to prostitute themselves if they want. But you're right, I don't believe that.

but I don't need to see a prostitute to get that it just plain feels better when you think she's actually into you. And isn't that what the act is all about?

Oh yeah, for sure. And it doesn't hurt anyone. (And it helps the woman, since it would make the guy more likely to come back!) I guess it just feels dishonest to me, but so long as both people involved are okay with that, who am I to say it's wrong/bad/messed up/whatever?

[socksofjello.livejournal.com]

I think some of this may come down to the type of person who receives sex from prostitutes in the first place. Most people I know, even if they like the idea, don't believe hiring someone to screw around with is a particularly healthy behavior; it likely indicates social, mental, or familial problems of some sort and reeks of desperation. This might explain the general oddity found on the site.

And regarding the 'oppression' thing above, it's not so much that prostitution leads to female oppression as it the [i]circumstances[/i] that lead to it are often oppressive. Many, many of the women who go into the business have few to no other options (often due to lack of education, classism, racism, cissexism, etc) and are making the most of what little they might have. If someone really does want to sell their body for sex and enjoys it as a means of work, good on them, but this is often not the case. :(

(Trying not to make any definitive statements here. I understand there are exceptions to both of my points. I don't feel that the exceptions are the norm, but perhaps someone with personal experience inside the sex trade knows otherwise.)

[socksofjello.livejournal.com]

I am going to start biting off my fingers at the knuckle every time I use bbcode on LJ.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Ha! Your poor fingers!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Understood! In my perfect little world, even if the woman decided to start doing it because she had no better option, all the workers would be licensed, they'd have protection, health care would be available... make it a business like any other one. Make it safe for all involved.

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

"men are stupid", "men think with their dicks"

My dick resents the implication that it is stupid.

[sailor-arashi.livejournal.com]

What implication? It was stated outright!

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

I know right? The audacity of it all.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, Vel's dick. Should we kiss and make up?

[veloxe.livejournal.com]

I was actually tempted to make that comment in the first comment but I decided against it XD

I also wasn't sure if I should have went with 'kiss and make up' or 'kiss it better'. So many options.

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

A prostitute is an actor. Do you expect to watch House and then meat Hugh Laurie in RL and expect him to be like his character?

To the best of my knowledge (completely from stereotypes), a prostitute plays a role that their client wants. The men typically go to them because what they want in a role isn't obtained in their normal lives.

And you're right, guys are idiots if they believe that the woman will truly love them. But it's that feeling that gets them back. If Hugh Laurie came on House next week and he was acting like he'd been hanging out with the Care Bears for absolutely no reason, and then suddenly started playing Cuddy's part combined with a retard, would you be satisfied? Granted that sounds like a goddamn hilarious episode, but that character is not who you watched the show for. You watched House for a sarcastic, wise-cracking, anti-social, genius doctor.

I'm sure somewhere out there, there's a prostitute acting that part.

[achika-soladia.livejournal.com]

Oh my god did I really just say "meat Hugh Laurie?"

Self, I am disappoint.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that makes sense. The men want that role and if the women want money, they'll play it.

[sailor-arashi.livejournal.com]

I would think it's less that they really believe it, and more that the fantasy of it is important to the experience. Or something like that. I at least try to be hopeful that the average guy on the street isn't quite THAT deluded.

This being said, I am totally reading that site just as soon as I am no longer at work :D

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Based on other comments, I think you may just be right!

[fealubryne.livejournal.com]

Alex and I actually had a discussion about this the other day. I'd commented on the exact same thing (the whole "GFE" bit) and sort of laughed about how pathetic it makes men come across. Of course, this was mildly insulting to the male gender in general, so we talked about it and came to pretty much the same conclusion:

Men are perfectly capable of "logical thought" in these situations and they know exactly what they're doing. Thing is, they're just shutting off that part of their brain to experience what they feel like experiencing at the moment. It would be like role-playing, or role-play in the bedroom -- you know it's not real, but you go along with it because, hey, it gets you off.

In a way, women do the same thing. We just go about it differently. Look at Twilight, for example. Men are very visual, while women are very mental. Guys look at porn, while women tend to read it. Men might want to act out and see their little "romance" or their fantasies, while women are perfectly satisfied in most situations to just work it up in their head. In the end we're all aware it's not real, but we let ourselves enjoy it while we can. And the better the girl is at acting her part, giving them that "GFE" that they crave, the better.

...Of course, I'm sure there's probably the poor saps who might have done this so long and actually manage to fool themselves into believing it's real. But I'd say that's on them. They're paying for an experience, kind of like how we pay for an experience when we go to a movie or a theme park or get a massage. If they're paying for it, they may as well enjoy it, I guess. *shrug!*

[voidmagus.livejournal.com]

I've had a couple friends hire callgirls (they askew the 'prostitute' term - they reserve that for streetwalkers). I even had a chance to converse with one, years ago.

Both sides see it as a sort of formalization or contract handling what normally would be unspoken. In particular the friend of mine who actually did the GFE...He took her to social events. And it was her job to be charming, attractive, and make other people jealous. Which kind of creeped me out -- is that a purpose a girlfriend serves?

Anyway, both girls and my friends viewed it rather cold terms. Many relationships are based on the successful breadwinner male and supportive female. To them, in its most basic form, man provides living requirements and luxuries, woman provides companionship. Prostitution is just the contracting of that agreement, formalizing the various terms. Woman will provide companionship in the following forms, Man will provide monetary compensation and whatever additional luxuries are requested. No subtle manipulations, no begging, no bargaining (that always creeps me out - the girls&guys who agreed to a sex act X, they don't want to do, in exchange for Y)...as they say, no relationship bullshit. Personally, its the mindgames that I find the most fun in a relationship.

Most notably, one of my friends who does the callgirl thing says that is his main reason for doing it. He wants a girlfriend, but doesn't want to have to deal with her. One night stands cause more drama than they're worth, and he's never found a girl for a long term thing that didn't bug the hell out of him when he's working.

As for me, I couldn't do it. I like being in relationships, and have been in one at a time since highschool, with the exception of a 1 year window where I was completely misogynistic (my gf made me hate women), and about 1 year where I worked to convince my now-wife how awesome I am. Even so, I'm a huge geek. I argue I'm not terribly attractive (though my wife disagrees), but I've never had trouble finding willing and interested women. My friends who hire their companions instead of recruiting them are all more attractive and better off financially. If I have no trouble finding girls, neither would they. They choose to hire instead.

[fealubryne.livejournal.com]

I am really, really glad you posted this. It's really interesting to see the other (real?) side of things. As much as I want to avoid the idea that relationships really are seen as "I give you X for Y" that's how so many come across. Alex even came home from work and was telling me about some girl he works with who pretty much demanded of her boyfriend a pair of $300 designer sunglasses because "she's worth every penny"... and yet the couple only does the occasional barhopping and social event together. Heck. If that's the way it's going to work it's probably cheaper to hire a callgirl, and more convenient, in the long run.

I know I won't ever be able to fully understand how men think, but I certainly try (if for no other reason than to better the communication in my own relationship) and... huh. This all really gives a person something to think about. It's interesting to see how differently people view some issues and situations.

[voidmagus.livejournal.com]

Glad to help! I always found that cold view of relationships as somewhat depressing...everything should be give and take. Try as we might to be otherwise, humans are social, emotional creatures. We can't help but develop bonds to those we're near (and sometimes, not so near -- I feel closer to Thistle than most of my coworkers), and we tend towards misery if we lack at least a few of those bonds. The two traits my friends who hire callgirls share is - financial security (not 'wealthy' per se, but well off), and selfishness. They make pretty good friends, but if I ever want them to do something I have to make it align with their self-interest. If they took the time to actually do for someone else, sexually or otherwise, they'd find the payback more than worth the effort.

And for entertainment, and what seems surprisingly accurate, consider watching Secret Diary of a Callgirl. BBC show, starring former Doctor Who companion Billie Piper. Her character reminds me a great deal of the GFE-callgirl my friend hired a few times.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

I feel closer to Thistle than most of my coworkers

I can easily say the same!

Secret Diary of a Callgirl.

Oooh, you know, I followed the blog that was based on (or some callgirl show was based on, I think the blog had the same title as that). Years and years ago...

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that makes good sense (your last paragraph as well). They want X (say, GFE), so the women (wanting the money) play the role for them. I guess saying it's sad IS being judgmental; so long as everyone involved is happy with the situation, who am I to say?

[fealubryne.livejournal.com]

I guess saying it's sad IS being judgmental

Maybe saying the situation itself is sad is judgmental, but... like voidmagus said, this "cold view of relationships" itself is sort of depressing. I've always been of the opinion that it's all good so long as everyone's consenting and knows what's going on -- a person's choices are their own -- but the very fact that it comes down to, as I said before, the "I give you X for Y" thing being seen as a "relationship" sort of weirds me out. I'm a darned jaded and cynical person, and I tend not to think too highly of people in general, but I think part of me still wants to believe that most relationships are based off some sort of mutual understanding and friendship... and fewer are based off the "we tolerate each other well enough to provide company for one another when we feel like it" mentality. I wonder if it might be the other way around, however. Which would explain a lot about relationships I see, to be honest. And that in and of itself is sort of sad.

Either way, this whole conversation has been really interesting. I'm glad for this post, it was good to see other peoples' takes on it, especially since I had been thinking about it as well. It's definitely given some insight, and made me think, which I appreciate.

[ani-mama.livejournal.com]

Those guys must be very socially awkward, if they really feel that the paid women love them...

Have you read http://myveryworstdate.com/ ? I think some of the guys who show up on the posts there must be writing reviews on the prostitute site!

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Ha! What an amusing site! No, I hadn't read it before, thanks!

[quasilemur.livejournal.com]

They don't actually believe the woman loves them or is totally into them. The guys that believe that sort of thing are typically the sort of creepers that will quickly find themselves unable to get a date with any escort in town, as there tends to be a network of recommendation and word of mouth among escorts as to what clients are good, and which are potentially dangerous.

It's a fantasy and a release. Many of these women are extremely adept at reading people, and are able to say and act in ways that their clients want them to without being instructed. "It's like they really get me," the guy feels, even if his rational mind knows it's not real. The stress of his shit job and his shit relationship melt away for a few precious hours, while he's with this companion that he can be himself around for just a little while, not worrying about saying the wrong thing or impressing anyone.

By and large, these men aren't any more or less pathetic than any other. Maybe they're working all the time and can't maintain a relationship. Maybe they're in a strange city and don't know anyone. Maybe they just prefer it this way. The only thing you can say with a surety is that they probably have a bit of disposable income.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

as there tends to be a network of recommendation and word of mouth

Yeah, I saw mention of that on the site's boards (one of these English folks was going to go to NY and wanted to find women to hook up with there). It surprised me more than it should have -- I'm glad the women (and men, as applies) have that sort of thing set up!

Thanks for the comment, it made a lot of sense! (And oops, yep, I didn't mean to imply the men were pathetic. It's just a really odd situation, and a very interesting one as well!)

The only thing you can say with a surety is that they probably have a bit of disposable income.

"A bit" is fitting. At the moment, a dollar is worth almost two pounds. The range of prices I saw was about 30-120, so we're talking $15 for a half hour to $60 for an hour. That really seems almost cheap, for someone you're not just pulling into the back of your car.

[quistie.livejournal.com]

I am not sure why this is bothering you. Yes, of course the GFE is just an illusion, but people spend a lot of time and money maintaining illusions everywhere. Illusions are important! You know the kid behind that fastfood counter probably doesn't care about the food since he's only making minimum wage, and he *really* doesn't give a damn how you are doing, but he asks anyway to be polite because he's trying to maintain the illusion. And it is just an illusion because the food is not going to taste any better. And we all do that. We are not 100% honest at play or at work, maybe because we just can't cope with true honesty.

And...who knows, just because the prostitutes are doing it for the money doesn't mean that they can't also take pride in making their customers happy. Maybe it's unlikely, but I suspect some of them do feel that way.

[thistle-chaser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, true... and agreed on the last paragraph, too!